Defiant and Insubordinate

Specialties Geriatric

Published

I am an RN. I manage a unit and LPNs do the floor work. They are subordinate to me, in licensure and hierarchy. I do NOT play that up.

This morning, a "floating" nurse had the 6 a.m. medication pass and missed meds for 4 patients. Most were not critical, one was a huge dose of insulin for a diabetic whose blood sugar has been out of control.

The LPN notices the meds were missed. They are now 1 1/2 hours out of range for compliance with being given at the right time. The night nurse was still in the building so I verified with her that she had NOT given the meds. I told the current nurse to give them. She said nothing.

At 1130 she tells me that the patient who gets the insulin has a blood sugar of 463. I asked, "Even after the 36 units of Lantus?" She says, "I didn't give any Lantus. It was out of the time range." "Did you give everyone else their meds?" "No, I can't. They're late." Now, "nursing judgment" is the prerogative of every nurse, but the supervising RN supersedes the LPN. I've been an LPN and know how frustrating that is, but LPNs work under the direct supervision of RNs. And I am responsible for what happens when I am the supervising RN.

At this point I have to call the doctor AND write up the night nurse for med errors. What should have been simple is now a big hairy time-consuming deal. Of course, he tells me to give all the meds as none are that time-sensitive and need to be given.

I note all the charts and tell her to give the meds.

And I write her up.

All hell breaks loose. Even the aides are yelling about how unfair it is that A made an error and B is getting written up. I leave the unit for 20 minutes to compose myself. Meanwhile, I have a resident running two separate IV antibiotics and have administrative tasks to perform and am now behind because I spent an hour writing up errors, calling doctors, and writing up people. None of which whould have been necessary had she not just been defiant.

2 pm comes and I notice that she hasn't given the meds. I start passing them. She actually says, "Are you giving those 5 am meds?" "Yes." "You need to write orders for them all." "Um, no, the system will mark them at the time they were given." "Yeah, but no one will know they were late unless you write a note." "You think I didn't write progress notes two hours ago when I gave you the instructions to give them?"

WTH?! HOLDING 36 UNITS OF INSULIN? THAT'S NURSING JUDGMENT BY HER? And holding glyburide on someone else, who gets only that all day for her BS?

What do I do with this brat?

Geeze, all I wanted her to do was give the a.m. meds.

I am so far from hard-nosed that it's baffling.

Specializes in trauma, ortho, burns, plastic surgery.

"Fight to fight" in a nursing facility is not a good approach AT ALL!

Special for patients.

The employee will not fallow up the management decisions as soon as they will not belive in them and in the fairness of and much more to show them the door, is also not a good approach....until all other methods was used....

They MUST to know WHAT are the exepectancies at the work place and what will be happen if they will walk the line!

If you and all of the management of facility need to have and make OPEN the policy related of this type of cases .

If you don't have a strong documentation related what will be happen with ANYONE who will walk the line...........the same and the same will be happen again and again and on big dimensions all the times.

You will run in a vicious circle where everyone could do it , what they want, because they can.

And then will be two circles "hunters" and "the goose" .... very bad approach!

The name of this type of phenomenon is "lack of management and leadership style"

"10.000 like you are on the door" is not a wise management approach at all!

BUT also you could not tolerate this type of deviant behavior at all...

Make the rules to be POLICY, let employees know it, educate them, show them what will be happen, good and bad if they will or not fallow up with rules.

Make clean and clear the place!

Let them to speak out, to know what is wrong and why they are unhappy.

Sue.... mellow down you need support from up top management, ask for help!

Hugs!

zuzi, I already kicked this to the DON.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
They. will. not. win.

You go girl.

Oh the drama of it all!

Specializes in Correctional, QA, Geriatrics.
Geeze, all I wanted her to do was give the a.m. meds.

I am so far from hard-nosed that it's baffling.

Your "sin"? You are holding them accountable. It seems from what you have written that there has a pattern of pass the buck, I'm not going to fix someone's else mistake, it's not my job, etc. You expect folks to do their jobs, to be accountable, to work together to get things done even if that means correcting a problem left for them by another employee shift.

Specializes in LTC Family Practice.

Hugs to you Sue, and enjoy your day off. It sounds like things are escalating big time. Ms. Who does she think she is nurse needs to be walked to the curb, the LPN loudly throwing a temper tantrum, needs an write up after you've had a talk with her, same with the CNA who pushed by you.

You need major backing up by your DON right away and I hope you get it. Sounds like things are really festering and if not nipped it will get worse.

OH I wish you the best of luck, those nit wits should be greatful for a job in these times. It all boils down to respect of fellow human beings, and some of your staff is being childish.

I hope things work out ok for you Sue. I'm out of management now and I don't think people realise how difficult it is, I never realised adults could be so childish until I was a ward manager.

Amen to that. It isn't just the unit staff who are that childish, either. As a manager and DON, I couldn't believe how pouty and babyish administration and management get, too! Jeeze, cry me a river, will ya? I'm better off out of those roles, primarily because I couldn't stand the mentality of some of the people who run these places.

I don't know about your LTC facility, but at ours, we could not call the MD as LPNs. It was up to the RN. I think unless you have the experience of working with a nurse/CNA like the one you work with, it is hard to understand. Education and /or other traditional methods don't work. They have a everyone against me mentality. It is unbelieveble until you experience it.

Just wanted to say I'm truly floored at the restrictions some people work under. At my facility we have four unit managers on our four units and all four are LPNs. We have a day shift RN supervisor who is wonderful. I'm a floor nurse, but if I'm working an off shift when the unit manager isn't there, or if she's absent, or stuck in meetings, and I have a problem I am free (and expected) to call the doctor myself and obtain and carry out new orders.

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
LPNs can call here. However, had she just given the QD meds when we discovered they'd been missed there'd have been no issue at all, other than a med error for review.

Yeah, that!! I feel the need for a quiet Zen retreat in the woods just reading about your unit, Sue! ;)

This stuff about communication style, etc., come on! There is no possible way the LPN did not know what Sue wanted her to do. As I sit here pondering the various reasons and "what ifs" for what happened, (not to be confused with "critical thinking" :p , I don't do that), is that some nurses I know would also may not want to give a q day or q 12 hour vitamin or prilosec to a nursing home resident even 10 minutes out of the window. To me, that makes no sense. Just give the darn things and let's get on with our day. To an overly paranoid or new person, maybe that was their problem? And that's the best effort I can put forward at seeing the Ms Defiant's P.O.V.

With that said, even if that was her issue, she didn't communicate that to her supervisor. She just didn't do it. She showed a willingness to jeapordize patient care in the interest of staking out her position. The diabetic lady didn't get what she needed in a timely manner and the LPN knew that. This wasn't a new nurse, whoever it was who asked about that. New nurses usually don't have the brass ones to act that way.

Whatever it is that's causing people to flip out on a daily basis, barge past you and all other maladaptive behaviors, I don't know. . . but I sure hope it's temporary! :jester:

Well, there's one thing I've gotten over. I used to care about people liking me and up until this weekend I wanted them to.

Heh. Like, schmike. Respect my au-thor-i-tay or get gone.

This is why I enjoy being a staff nurse now. Yeah...I am technically the supervisor too, but still not upper management.

When I get inot a situation like this I repeat back to the person "so let me get this correct, you are refusing to do xyz even tho it will cause xyz to happen?" Okay. I will do it and when I am finished we will talk and sign some papers that will look like a disciplinary form." or "since you don't want to work, how about just going home?"

I am always, always willing to explain my actions and educate staff as needed, I will help out or find help and I would never ask someone to do what is outside of their scope of practice. We all come to work to guess what? WORK.

Well, there's one thing I've gotten over. I used to care about people liking me and up until this weekend I wanted them to.

Heh. Like, schmike. Respect my au-thor-i-tay or get gone.

I'm with you, Sue, but there's a problem with that attitude as well. When those higher up the ladder than you are unsuccessful in addressing problem behaviors with staff, they will usually take the path of least resistance. If enough widespread staff complaints and discontent develop, your DON might ultimately find it easier to mark you as the problem employee and deal with you accordingly.

I know it's not right. I know it's not fair. But I have often seen excellent staff members sacrificed in the name of an administrator's or manager's desire to save face. The mantra of management used to be "this isn't a popularity contest," and it didn't matter if the manager was liked by staff as long as he or she had the staff's respect. However, during the last decade I've seen that morph significantly and now it seems to be all about who likes whom more. Cronyism appears to have a firm foothold in all of the settings I've worked in lately. Appearance is everything, all the way down into the lowest ranks, and bulls**t is doing all of the talking. Butt kissing and gladhanding from both sides of the desk are being interpreted as demonstrations of respect. Mutual favors thrive. Machinations abound.

Be careful, Sue. Even a DON who genuinely likes and respects you will mow you down you in the name of the game.

(sometimes it's like the Mafia, Sue)

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