Deer in the headlights pain assessments

Nurses General Nursing

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Getting a patient to use the numerical pain scale should be easy, right? Pick a number from one to ten with one being just a little bothersome and ten being the worst pain you have ever felt or imagined. Seems pretty straighforward to me.

But my patients sometimes look at me as if I've asked them to add the square roots of their children's birth dates and round to the nearest hundredth.

They stare at me and scrunch up their faces as if this is a scary pop quiz and they don't want to get it wrong. After a ten or fifteen seconds of agonizing, I get answers like, "Not quite a four and a half," or, "sort of a six," or, "somewhere between a two and a seven."

We all know about the 10/10 folks who want every prn measure available the second they can have it. But this other group seems really cowed by the complexity of the question. I've seen the same expression on people who have just been told they have to do a dozen algebra story problems. I feel for them. I really do. Sometimes I have even said, "Don't put yourself into a tizzy over this," and reassured them that they aren't being graded. Not even on a curve.

When I offer the pain faces as an alternative, I'm not sure if the face they pick matches their actual medical discomfort or if they are expressing the psychological intimidation they feel about having to choose the exactly appropriate not-so-smiley face.

It's not a big deal. We work it out and they get the meds they need. I'm just periodically amazed/amused at the overwhelming burden picking a pain face or number seems to put on some patients. Makes me wish I could offer them some light sedation before putting them through the ordeal. :D

Specializes in Med Tele, Gen Surgical.

I also find the pain scale to be frustrating more often than helpful but I still have to document using it, bleh. I like the suggestions to use it more as a benchmark and see where the number is trending. What I have found that helps in addition is asking patients where the pain is located (usually knees and hips on our floor!), how would they describe it, does it hurt when just laying in bed or in a chair, does it prevent them from shifting weight or changing positions right now, does it make them think twice about getting out of bed to use the bathroom or walk (if they are post op day X and the WB status allows), and what do they think would help (unless that last one unleashes the PITA in the pt..... ;) )

For example, with a patient cared for I found out that the pain was more of a throbbing in nature in the knee, that they didn't want to move right now and wouldn't even consider getting up to use the BSCommode/BR, and that they had just had PRN perco x 2 within the last 90 minutes. A little ice and increased elevation, voila! I like to use the trendelenberg with the knee gatch locked flat and then elevate the HOB, fewer pillows to fuss with and they keep their leg straight. That and one huge honkin' ice bag that almost surrounds the knee.

Oh silly Lobot, how dare you use your clinical assessment and problem solving skills instead of blindly following the pain scale numbers?? :p

one of the docs i worked with used to say, "if your pain is a dollar, how much is in your back and how much in your leg?" (this was for back injuries with disk herniations/bulges/protrusions on mri, and he was looking to see how much radicular pain there was.) if the patient said, "95 cents in my back and 5 cents in my leg," it was probably not a surgical problem; 50 cents back-50 cents leg, or more leg pain than back pain told him there was actual radiculopathy. i never had anybody not be able to work with that one.

i think that would probably be adaptable to many circumstances, depending on what you're looking at we all know that the accreditation agencies want evidence of pain assessment and eval of treatment, but they don't specify how you do it, just that there's evidence of it being done in a systematic way.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I wonder if it has something to do with freaking out because numbers are involved. There are an awful lot of people who don't like anything connected with math. So, even though there isn't any calculating required, just the mere mention of numbers is enough to make them uncomfortable.

But then you'd think they'd respond better to the pain faces, and they don't.

Maybe I should give them a ten-minute warning so they can work through the emotions first. :D

I think they instantly feel they are being tested and want to give the "right" answer. I always start off with tell me about your pain and how you are feeling......pain is vary personal to everyone and it's important for me to know how YOU are feeling. That there is NO right answer.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
:) You write a nice story. :)

Unfortunately, I am one of those patients. I can tell you quite certainly that labor was a 9. But after that, it's confusing. For example, I once sliced open a finger and needed stitches. It hurt like a 7, but it was only a finger, so it was really only like a 4. I guess need a way to curve down painful, but small things.

Yup, giving birth was a 10+++++ for me, so it makes anything else seem pretty lame.

Specializes in Med Tele, Gen Surgical.

@ Wooh..... (forehead slap to self, what was I thinkin?) 8)

@ Esme.... I agree that for many people numbers are associated with correct answers. There is only one correct (two if dealing with parabolic equations and the quadratic equation, but we won't delve into that here, is anyone nervous yet?) answer to math equations, and the "right" answer for as long as anyone has ever attended school is associated with getting a good grade, getting praise, passing, getting what you want. So on a subconcious (sp?) level I think many people have an emotional reaction that may cause them to "blank-out," just like on a test.

Anyone have any other good assessment questions/observations on pain asssessment that are beyond textbook that have worked? I would love to hear some, we have a lot of knees/hips/total joint on our floor so that would be helpful...

BTW, Esme, I'm a fan, too. GOTCHA! :)

Chuckling at this thread, and agreeing with everybody. I'm a nurse, I KNOW what the pain scale is for, I KNOW we're looking to see if the number comes down and all the rest of it, but I still hesitate and struggle and worry about my answer if I'm asked this.

Totally agree about the cut finger, it hurts like a 7 but it's only a cut finger so I can't say 7!! My migraines feel like a 10 sometimes but how could I say 10 when I know it isn't going to kill me and it will eventually go away?? My back pain is probably a 4 but maybe it's really only a 3.

I think we've painted ourselves into a corner with the pain scale and vote for going back to the days of mild, moderate or severe and the pain is gone, the pain's a bit better or the pain's a lot better!

Specializes in Med Tele, Gen Surgical.

"If your pain is a dollar, how much is in your leg and how much is in your head?" (Sorry, couldn't pass that one up :) )

Chuckling at this thread, and agreeing with everybody. I'm a nurse, I KNOW what the pain scale is for, I KNOW we're looking to see if the number comes down and all the rest of it, but I still hesitate and struggle and worry about my answer if I'm asked this.

Totally agree about the cut finger, it hurts like a 7 but it's only a cut finger so I can't say 7!! My migraines feel like a 10 sometimes but how could I say 10 when I know it isn't going to kill me and it will eventually go away?? My back pain is probably a 4 but maybe it's really only a 3.

I think we've painted ourselves into a corner with the pain scale and vote for going back to the days of mild, moderate or severe and the pain is gone, the pain's a bit better or the pain's a lot better!

Or, in the spirit of who cares if we have to fill out yet another form, I propose the Misery Scale as an adjunct to the pain scale. My cut finger could 7 on the pain scale but 2 on the misery scale. My migraine could 6 pain/10 misery and my back pain could be 4 pain/7 misery.

So, what do you all think?? :D

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Or, in the spirit of who cares if we have to fill out yet another form, I propose the Misery Scale as an adjunct to the pain scale. My cut finger could 7 on the pain scale but 2 on the misery scale. My migraine could 6 pain/10 misery and my back pain could be 4 pain/7 misery.

So, what do you all think?? :D

I think I'm going to chase you with a baseball bat if some JCAHO rep. sees this and decides we now have to document a "misery scale" as the 7,368,941st "vital sign." ;)

Specializes in Trauma, Teaching.

I ask, "if a 10 is rolling around the floor screaming", and if I get that deer/head" light look explain it is just so I can see if it goes up and with meds etc.

The sheer volume of 10s has gone down, but I still get the occasional glare "its a 10!" with a defiant "don't you dare contradict me" look. I look back and say, well, you aren't rolling around the floor, are you telling me this couldn't get worse?. Then I get a "well, its a 9". Sometimes they say, "I would be rolling if I could" (those are usually pretty obviously in pain but controlling it).

If they insist its a 10 while demanding food, TV controls, etcetcetc, I document "Pt reports 10/10, has relaxed affect and is moving ________ without problem".

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