Dear Abbey, about a nurse

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jun 7, 2006

Several issues:

- Was the individual an actual nurse? It could easily be an MA, CNA, etc.

- As a generally rule, "anesthesia" is not used for endoscopy, conscious sedation is. There is a significant difference. While there is no veracity in the idea that people do not lie under anesthesia or under conscious sedation, the drugs used especially with CS can reduce inhibitions. While that does not mean that they will not lie, it does mean that they may say things that they normally would not say.

I have had male patients tell me how "big" they were, how rich they were, yada, yada, - unsolicited - while under the influence. And have "flashed" me. And the evidence is that they do lie...or at least exaggerate a lot.

Chances are, if the wife was there in recovery, it was more likely CS and not general anesthesia used.

- Most endos are done in a hospital/OP facility and not in an office. As such, the MD is not the nurse's supervisor. The problem should be addressed to the nurse manager/supervisor.

- The wife asked the question, not the alleged nurse. You do not ask a loaded question without anticipating that you may not like the answer.

- The patient committed (or admitted to commiting) an act that damages his marriage. And compounds it by hiding it. These are both wrongs that he committed, not the alleged nurse. These are things that will destroy the marriage.

- We are also receiving all of these details, third or fourth person. Someone overhears something said between two others, then overhears something else. How close we they, how accurate, and lack of knowledge of what preceded these events are not known.

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In all though, the "health care professional" was lax in her speech and that was wrong and unthinking. However, the onus of the breakup of the marriage still belongs to the man that committed infidelity and was not honest with his wife - an act that could have deadly consequences these days. And the wife bears some responsibility as she asked the question.

JessLPN2RNASN · Jun 7, 2006

If the patient had received MS would it be wrong of the nurse to tell the wife that it caused resp depression? Like wise, I don't know that much about anesthesia meds or what medication the patient received but there are some meds that do have that effect and wouldn't the nurse just be telling the wife of the side effects of the drug? Isn't that what we do?

There is an ethical obligation (and legal, to some extent) for a nurse to discuss the side effects of medications, however, this particular side effect had nothing to do with life-and-death or the effects on the patient's well-being. Therefore, it was an inappropriate statement. Had she felt the need to disclose such information, the nurse should have done so in a more professional and confidential manner. Was the conversation not overheard by a third party? Very unprofessional (hope JACHO/HIPPA doesn't get wind of that).

Gromit · Jun 7, 2006

Uhm folks, it should also be noted again, that this is NOT a first-party account. How often have we all seen a family member (and this one was removed by a curtain, so could hardly see WHO was actually telling the 'wife' whatever she was telling her) who took a story, facts and all, and distorted it (even a little at a time -not intentionally- ) until the story bore little resemblance to what actually happened? AND THEN this nutcase is writing the story to a columnist for advice, no less. For all we know, the facts could be entirely different than what was written. How many times have you seen a family member mistake a cna for a nurse, or even a nurse for a doctor, etc. ? Lets keep in mind who we are talking about here.

JessLPN2RNASN · Jun 7, 2006

someone needs to write and tell abbey that its not the doctor's job to discipline a nurse because the nurse doesn't belong to him. if their is a valid complaint against a nurse, it should be made towards hospital administration or the state board of nursing.

I just did, as I hope most of the members on here will do also! :madface:

I also posted a comment on Abby. I'm willing to bet it infuriated a lot of real nurses (I was profoundly amused by the "60's soap opera" comment). It just might be ignorance like Abby's that contribute to the nursing shortage. What kind of indepenent young person is going to voluntarily enter a profession that requires complete subordination to an arrogant jerk with a God complex?

carlarn, BSN, RN · Jun 8, 2006

well as interesting as this has been, everyone has failed to point out that the person in scrubs may have been a doctor and not a nurse, medical assistant or nurse's aide. all the people in pacu wear scrubs, including the physicians. nurses are not the only ones capable of making inappropriate comments; as all nurses know, the most inappropriate comments often fall out of the mouths of the doctors. again, the individual who wrote to "dear abby" was behind a curtain and didn't see the person who made the comment about the "truth serum effect" of the anesthesia, be it conscious sedation or a general anesthetic.

yes, it would have been hilarious if the wife would have asked "where is all the money?" but what would the person on the other side of the curtain have done with that information? he/she certainly wouldn't have been able to complain to dear abby then.

mkeep74 · Jun 8, 2006

OK. Sorry, but in my experience with people in recovery from any anasthetic, they rarely know what the hell they are alking about. Yes, you may occasionally get a recognizable answer from them, but it could just as easily be that they did not really process the question given to them to begin with. Are you having any pain? Pt responds no, but is trying to pull out every tube or device around. They simply don't know what they are doing. The person in question, whether it be nurse, CNA, MD or whatever, should not have said that. It was a misleading comment. People under the effects of anasthesia will say and do alot of things. None of which can be taken seriously. The issue should definately have been taken to a nurse manager or supervisor for the floor though.

chadash · Jun 8, 2006

Maybe when she asked if he ever had an affair, he thought she asked had he ever been to the fair....yep, with Mary Ellen.....poor guy just went on the tilt'a'whirl or somethiing.

jalvino1 · Jun 9, 2006

Hold on for just a sec!

" (There were curtains separating the patients.)

While I was waiting for my wife to awaken, I overheard a nurse talking to the wife of the patient next to us. "

How the heck does he know it was even the nurse?! I for one know that I'm constantly being confused as a nursing student, my nurse's aides as nurses, family members as doctors and vice versa... and all that is face to face. Now this guy is behind a curtain easedropping and assuming that the woman who gave advice was the nurse. For all he knows it was the wife's sister!

As for Dear Abby, if you read the thread before after that, her advice is "You might as well separate now... He (your husband) just picked the wrong girl to marry." ... yea abby, great advice

KellNY, RN · Jun 10, 2006

As for Dear Abby, if you read the thread before after that, her advice is "You might as well separate now... He (your husband) just picked the wrong girl to marry." ... yea abby, great advice

Actually, I agreed with that. made sense.

Bruce RN · Jun 11, 2006

I will concede your point on that matter.
I just do not think the resulting breakup of the marriage is her fault.

I agree. The breakup was most definitely not her fault.

However, giving out opinions and unproven theories disguised as fact, when the employee was dressed in scrubs and employed in the PACU, put the family member in a vulnerable position and she most likely bought the story about people not being able to lie while under anesthesia simply because the person telling her that was dressed in scrubs and working there.

Very irresponsible regardless of whether the employee was an RN, LPN, CNA, or housekeeper dressed in scrubs.

Bruce RN · Jun 11, 2006

In addition, this whole thread is just another example of why visitors shoudn't be allowed into the PACU in the first place.

The fact that there were two visitors, visiting adult patients recovering from seemingly normal surgeries, one of which was apparantly still quite anesthetized (very inappropriate for a visitor to see any of that) who overheard conversations (again inappropriate for privacy reasons, PACU is all one big room, visitors should not be in there to have the opportunity to listen in on conversations) is really what bothered me the most.

SharonH, RN · Jul 17, 2006

Today, Dear Abby printed some of the letters she received in response to this column. She printed 5 letters with only one of them from a registered nurse and one of them from someone who said they were an anesthesia provider but were non-specific. She chose to ignore the letters taking her to task for her comments implying that nurses belonged to physicians and we were their responsibility to discipline and counsel. She also did not address the absurdity of blaming the "nurse" for breaking up a marriage.