First off, let me start by saying, I am blessed with a group of *mostly* very good CNA's. We are a team, and when I am on I am respected as a team leader, and the respect is returned to the hard working CNA's. I normally do not have this issue.
This situation began when I was working night shift. It was a little after 0500, and I was preparing to do my 0600 med pass. A CNA (who was due to work at 0600) called in sick. Our policy is that call in's are 2 hours in advance. I understand that not everyone wakes up 2 hours before their shift starts, and sometimes you wake up sick. I was not going to tell her she could not call in, but I did state, "It's 0500, it will be hard to find a replacement at this time, but I'll try." She went on ranting and raving. "I don't care what time it is. I woke up sick, and I'm not comming in sick!" Among other ramblings. I again explained that I understood, and I would try to find someone. Although she was raising her voice at me, I did not raise my voice at her. I was going to let the situation go, but she called back 5 minutes later, and cussed me out with, "You're so (beep)ing rude!!! what's with this 0500 (Beep)!!! I can't believe how (beep)ing rude you are!!! I'm reporting you to the DON! What part of I'm sick don't you (beep)ing understand!!! I never (beep)ing call in sick" She was practically screaming in my ear. . . and as you guessed the main (beep) is the four letter wourd that rhymes with truck, and this IS a person who frequently calls in.
The first conversation would not have bothered me, but the fact that she felt that it was okay to speak to me in the manner that she did was very wrong. I did write it up, and it went to the DON.
The next day, she appologized to me in a "Let's get this over with." Manner, and obviously expected me to appologize to her. All I said back to her at that time was, "I am sorry I made you upset, but you cannot speak to me the way you did."
Then she went on and on about how she didn't need a lecture, how she never has had this problem with any other nurse, and how I was in the wrong by stating that, "It's 0500."
Sorry, but I don't feel that I was in the wrong here. The only mistake I made at that point (just trying to be an honest person) I let her know that I wrote the situation up.
She then informed me, "Oh well, it will just go into the trash anyway."
At that point I walked away from the situation. It was on my friday. After a couple of days off I return to work, several people had come to me saying that the said CNA was going around saying that, "Oh the DON ripped it up, and it went in the trash. She understands that I'm not taking orders from a 24 year old."
I was pretty hot when I was hearing this. A) 24 or not, I am still the nurse. B)I don't give orders . . .I ask, not tell. C) None of the other CNA's seem to have a problem with me. I have even been told by several CNA's that I am very easy to work with.
I soon found out that what was being said was not true. She is simply trying to make herself look good, and convince other CNA's that it is okay to speak to me like that. Well!!! It isn't working.
My solution to the issue right now is to not let her drag me down to her level. I really don't speak to her right now unless my job requires, but I still feel horribly tense, and I really want to put her in her place (which I know is not the best of all ideas right now).
We share a few common friends, and I'm thinking she's going to try to stir the pot for me, and in a way she already has.
I just want to know if anyone else has delt with a CNA like this.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I think she was very disrespectful to call you back and use such language. I agree with checking with the DON to see what the actual response to her actions were. This way, you see for yourself what support you would receive no matter what the confrontation was about. If this is the sort of DON that lets people run the show, then, this may not be the place for YOU. Sorry this happened.
I just want to add something here. Please don't apologize for "making her upset". You didn't "make her upset". You can't "make someone" anything. She chose to react to the fact that you stated the call-in policy to her by becoming upset.
I've found through the years that the more I don't raise my voice, the less credible the other person looks when they do. Stay calm (I know, easier said than done), stand your ground (literally and figuratively, as I've actually had a couple of CNAs advance toward me as if to strike me) and use simple language/terms. Practice in front of a mirror or with a friend if you find yourself getting flustered when this type of situation arises.
This is a hard job, but we're all helping each other.
It is the lack of true disciplinary action in LTC that gives CNA's this "untouchable" attitude. It is due to such apathy from the DON and administration, that i would recommend to any floor nurse to handle the discipline on their floors themselves. Many nurses take lots of disrespect, especially in LTC, but they surely dont have to. The word is already getting around that you will not be disrespected, and in the long term, your job will be much easier as a result. :)
IMO, whether you are "in charge" as the nurse and she as the cna should follow your instructions has nothing to do with this situation. A) company policy says you call in sick 2 hours prior - i assume this applies to nurses as well? She wasn't following that policy, you let her know about it. If she got the unit secretary when she called in the unit secretary might have said something similar.
and B) no one, regardless of where they are in the chain of command, should cuss or chew someone else out at work. Its just not professional, or appropriate, and you don't have to take it from a cna or an MD.
Now...with the call in. I just take the calls, I let them know.."jeesh...its kinda late to call in so you might get into trouble with the DON, but I hope you feel better soon" That is my standard one liner. When they decide to call in..sick or not, you probably aren't going to change their minds anyway, so don't waste your breath.
That's definetly a better way of handling the situation....especially considering it's morning shift and they might not wake up two hours prior to work. Although with her past attendance record I'm not so sure this is the case.
Specializes in Management, Emergency, Psych, Med Surg.
First of all, have you spoken with the DON and has she followed up on your report to her? You need to speak to her in person. You don't know what her relationship is with this individual so it is your responsibility to follow up with her. You should make it VERY clear to her that you will not tolerate this type of behavior in the future and that you have every expectation that she will take corrective action. You should then follow this up with a letter. Very often in LTC behaviors are tolerated because replacement CNA's cannot be found. People are fired and then rehired. This sends a very bad message and gives the people who are trouble the idea that they can do what ever they want without any fear of disciplinary action.
Second of all, stop the talk on the unit by saying nothing about it. When you hear people talking about it, refocus them by giving them some work to do. The issue is between you, the manager and the person in question and no one else. DO NOT FEED INTO THE GOSSIP or you will get yourself in trouble. You must conduct yourself in a very mature manner.
Third, it does not matter if this CNA likes you or what her feelings are. If she calls in again, you discussion with her should be to take her call in, note the time and hang up. Have no further conversation with her. If she calls you back, you should tell her that if she needs to discuss this in detail she should call the manager and then tell her that you are going to hang up now and do it. If she gets mad, it is her problem. Don't make it yours.
SLAP THE WITCH!!! Nah, just kidding....but it sure as heck is what I'd VISUALIZE doing if spoken to in that manner. Document it in a write-up and don't give her the time of day.
when truly sick, when truly one does have a very good attendance record and one truly does give one's best 99% of the time, it does set poorly to hear the recipient of the call-off tell one how hard it will be to replace one and to be told one is not following the call-off policy.
that said, she apparently was not that sick, she was completely wrong to curse you, you were not wrong - maybe unwise, though, which could come back to bite you.
immediately stop talking about this with anyone but your boss. pray the hoopla quickly dies down. she can't argue/talk with herself. stop engaging her. sadly, a lie told often enough can become the truth. also, if she is truly on a campaign, you could be in for a rough ride, with not a necessarily happy ending. no one ever promised us that we would be protected, just because we quote policy or are right. stinks, i know, but true, as i have learned the hard way when dealing with disrespectful, mouthy subordinates - especially if higher managers do not back up the nurse when he or she is right.
cna's have no real comprehension of how the licensed nurse views things. or how hard it is to be supervisor, especially when you have nurse work to do, too, as you did.
be prepared for war with this gal. she sounds like a liar, might be popular enough to hurt you. take the bull by the horns, maybe, and hold a meeting with your other workers, or talk with each of them privately and see if you can sense what they are thinking, what's brewing - if anything. this might be a bad idea - i'm just thinking out loud, i'm not really sure what you should do.
how are things now?
age matters not in the military. it's all about rank. should be the same on the job - nurse is in charge, 24 or not. it does matter, though, in reality. it's hard to obey someone younger if one is a "small" person and leaning toward being disrespectful, jealous.
good luck. i hope my ramblings make some sense.
also, one must get up 2 hours early because of the policy, not get up and call in when they feel like it. the policy is in place to help those who must try to replace call-off's be able to actually do it - while also passing meds and running a team. i just hope your facility is in the habit of enforcing policy. it's probably not, if it's like most places but we can hope.
Specializes in Mostly LTC, some acute and some ER,.
When truly sick, when truly one does have a very good attendance record and one truly does give one's best 99% of the time, it does set poorly to hear the recipient of the call-off tell one how hard it will be to replace one and to be told one is not following the call-off policy.
I completely agree with that concept also. I have not called off since early last year *when I had a severe case of bronchitis/pneumonia that dropped my O2 sat into the 60's.*
They've tried to send me home recently due to miscarrying (very unexpected) in the middle of my shift. I was still painfully able to accomplish my job, but I really did not want anyone called in on my behalf. The next day I showed up for my shift, although they had someone lined up if I called off, but I didn't want to sit at home and stew about it. I really regret not calling off, because that next night I was so physically and mentally exhauted that I was very ill. If I had called off (which I would have followed policy on) Yes I would have been miffed.
Those who follow the policy. . .and don't call in regularly. . .I don't have a problem with this at all, and I could probably think of another CNA who could use the over time. The call in wasn't really an issue for me, it was the way I was spoken to.
I really appriciate everyone's insight.
I just feel like a lot is happening to me at work these past few months, and I have had enough negitive that has been beyond my control at work. The good thing with all the negitive happenings lately is that I am truely finding out who my friends are.
CNA's have no real comprehension of how the licensed nurse views things. Or how hard it is to be supervisor, especially when you have Nurse work to do, too, as you did.
I wouldn't say that. I am a CNA and I know how hard a nurses' job is. Just because we're CNA's does not mean we're stupid.
Specializes in Mostly LTC, some acute and some ER,.
I wouldn't say that. I am a CNA and I know how hard a nurses' job is. Just because we're CNA's does not mean we're stupid.
Very true.
I think that what was meant to be said is SOME CNA's have no concept. Not all of them by any means. Like I began my post, I am blessed with a group of mostly good CNA's who are worth their weight in gold. Both CNA work and nursing are very hard jobs.
This thread is definantly not meant to down CNA's at all. I was one for 6 years, and I definantly am not, nor was I stupid.
When truly sick, when truly one does have a very good attendance record and one truly does give one's best 99% of the time, it does set poorly to hear the recipient of the call-off tell one how hard it will be to replace one and to be told one is not following the call-off policy.
I completely agree with that concept also. I have not called off since early last year *when I had a severe case of bronchitis/pneumonia that dropped my O2 sat into the 60's.*
They've tried to send me home recently due to miscarrying (very unexpected) in the middle of my shift. I was still painfully able to accomplish my job, but I really did not want anyone called in on my behalf. The next day I showed up for my shift, although they had someone lined up if I called off, but I didn't want to sit at home and stew about it. I really regret not calling off, because that next night I was so physically and mentally exhauted that I was very ill. If I had called off (which I would have followed policy on) Yes I would have been miffed.
Those who follow the policy. . .and don't call in regularly. . .I don't have a problem with this at all, and I could probably think of another CNA who could use the over time. The call in wasn't really an issue for me, it was the way I was spoken to.
I really appriciate everyone's insight.
I just feel like a lot is happening to me at work these past few months, and I have had enough negitive that has been beyond my control at work. The good thing with all the negitive happenings lately is that I am truely finding out who my friends are.
Yes, I know, no social life outside of my job.
As in so many areas of life, there really are no friends at work. That is, how many people do you know who will take a fall for you, stand by you no matter what, to their own detriment? I don't know any - well, my Mom.
I'm very sorry about your miscarriage. That had to be tough. I can't imagine someone who has just miscarried staying to finish the shift. The shock would knock a person over, I would think. But maybe some people cope best by keeping busy. You are a real trooper. Blessings.
pagandeva2000, LPN
7,984 Posts
I think she was very disrespectful to call you back and use such language. I agree with checking with the DON to see what the actual response to her actions were. This way, you see for yourself what support you would receive no matter what the confrontation was about. If this is the sort of DON that lets people run the show, then, this may not be the place for YOU. Sorry this happened.