Credibility of Walden University

Agrippa · May 30, 2013

This is not true. Residency programs are consistent for the respective discipline in every state, that is why we have the infamous "match day" that is the same day, no matter where you go to medical school, in the country. You complete a fellowship if you want to sub-specialize. For example, if you want to be a neonatologist, you complete a pediatric residency and then a neonatology fellowship.
So no, there is no such thing as a "Maryland" MD requirement.

That's my point ...there is no national set standard for NPs for licensure or education for that matter. Some NP programs have 45 credits and 500 hr clinical req, some have double that.

Yes, I know that residency disciplines are consistent across each state - that again was my point. The match program also highlights the highly competitive and selective nature of a medical education. Unfortunately, instead of striving to keep standards high and focusing on providing top notch education for anyone to be allowed to call themselves an NP, they've allowed these for profit companies trying to make a buck.

Honestly though, no one here is in a great position to tell you how a degree from "XYZ" program will pan out. I find that its very region specific and institution specific. I know some physicians that still think they need to directly supervise NPs who can practice independently in my state, and therefore never even thought of hiring an NP for her practice no matter what school they went to. I know another who is very familiar w/nps but would throw your resume out if it said you got your NP degree from University of Phoenix or Walden University.

Its a shame because these for profit businesses operating under the guise of centers for higher education do a disservice to their "customers" and give the really great NP programs and the profession as a whole, a bad name.

The medical profession doesn't put up w/that crap in this country. Thats why all these for profit medical schools are in the Caribbean, etc. Its a shame the nursing profession can't do the same.

shepherd34 · May 30, 2013

Myelin. .....the link for the ad please

shepherd34 · May 30, 2013

It seems as if the culture where nurses eat their young has transcended onto the forum. Not everyone has the opportunity to attend a brick mortar university. There are single parents with lots of responsibilities to juggle who cannot attend classes during the day. For some rural nurses there are no universities within their area, the only option they have is an online program. The attitude here is so discouraging! To say an msn from walden and 5 bucks can get you latte is disparaging. To imply that you'll be excluded from a job with a degree from an online university is disheartening for the person who has no other option, but has the strong desire to become a NP. We néed to find a way to streamline line the system so the requirements are the same for every university regardless of online or brick and mortar. I joined allnurses a week ago as a way to network with my colleagues and now I'm so turned off. Everyone has their opinion and it can be expressed in a diplomatic manner. So much hostility.

megank5183 · May 30, 2013

I think that the point is being missed. On-line education can be just as good, if not better, than brick and mortar schools. It is the for-profit schools that are in question (by me at least). As I said, do a simple google search for walden, u of phoenix, Everest, ITT Tech, or Kaplan not just for nursing, but for many majors. They are a SCAM run my wealthy conglomerates that could give a **** about their graduates. To add insult to injury, they accept loans funded by taxpayers to line their pockets.

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · May 30, 2013

Are you guys happy? You scared the OP away.

I seriously can't believe how so many people are taking this personally. If someone is expressing an opinion about a school, or what the perceived (being the optimal word) reputation or credibility is, it doesn't mean they are insulting anyone's intelligence personally (unless you happen to be the dean of the program).

I will reiterate what some have said here: like it or not, for-profit schools have a shady reputation. They are all lumped together. Also, some online programs also have a bad reputation. There is a highly state school in my area that has a highly regarded nursing program, much of it (beyond the traditional BSN) is online. No one in my area questions the integrity of this school.

When I complete my PhD, I will be competing with graduates from Columbia and NYU. Do I dare say that their programs are of lesser quality than the one I will be attending? I'd sound like a fool if I even tried.

I've been in an online program (the one I mentioned above) but transferred out after one semester (I needed the old-fashioned approach). My PhD will be brick and mortar as well. I have taught in a for-profit and a community college. There IS a difference. Some students in the for-profit school did just fine, some did awesome. but the reputation of the school is not so great. So it's possible that these awesome grads I taught will never get to shine, at least not for a whole, until they work their way up on their own merit.

I didn't see where myelin was angry. She was just expressing her opinion, and I doubt she was attacking any of you specifically.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · May 30, 2013

I have to disagree on the comment about physician residency and fellowship programs. They are not all equal. There is a wide variation in their quality as well. There are competitive residency and fellowship programs and there are programs that would take anyone with an MD next to their name regardless of where that was obtained. I have worked in numerous hospitals with residency programs from small community settings to academic centers -- the quality of residents and the teaching experience is very different.

You didn't read my post.....the post I was replying to was referring to the PROCESS of becoming an MD, not the quality of a program.

The PROCESS of becoming an MD is the same in all states. Quality of programs was never discussed.

Mark Hill BSN · Jun 3, 2013

I agree, completely. I said so, clearly. However, I do believe that Harvard et.al. offer superior education to Walden etc. I cannot see how anyone would deny that. Were we to randomly poll 1,000 people in North America, and ask them which College is superior, do you think the poll responses would be shocking? Would you expect Walden to best Harvard, Penn, Duke, etc? Or should we dispense with random opinion and just go with the US News and World Report rankings?
As inferior is the opposite of superior, then it stands to reason that Walden would thereby be "inferior" in comparison, but I would not have opted to use the pejorative because I think it is unnecessary. You are putting words in my mouth, so to speak. I stated clearly that Walden is no less capable of preparing novice NP graduates. How many ways do you want me to say it? Walden is sufficient.
The OP asked if a Walden diploma could be a disadvantage. Some of us have offered an opinion that is could be. I sincerely apologize if this offends you, but it remains my opinion, nonetheless. I accept the fact that you may disagree, but it remains my opinion, nonetheless.
Have a pleasant day, nonetheless.

As inferior is the opposite of superior, so is better the enemy of good. Which school is better, Yale or Harvard, what about Princeton...etc. My point is, all of this is a matter of opinion, which in the greater scheme, is worthless. The standard for nurse practitioner schools is CCNE accreditation. All the opinion in the world wont effect credentialing boards, and online education is here to stay, and may eventually replace the traditional brick and mortar university, as evidenced by all of the brick and mortar universities that are moving toward the online format.

Someone stated that they didn't understand why people were getting offended by people opinions of online universities.....? How can anyone not be offended when the conversation at its very core suggests that those who choose or have no choice but to attend online universities are receiving an "inferior" education? If you as a person in a position to hire prospective nurse practitioners choose not to hire those who receive online educations, then that is you prerogative, but there will be those who will hire "us", and many will be getting great healthcare providers, as many who hire graduates of brick and motor universities will be getting "bad" providers. No school will graduate only good or bad nurse practitioners, but all schools will graduate many combinations of good and bad depending of the individuals that are receiving the education, and their ability to transfer that education to real world practice. I have worked with doctors over the years who graduated from "superior" medical schools who couldn't pour proverbial **** out of a medical boot, and yet others who graduated from small "unknown" universities who made fantastic doctors. Don't suggest that I am getting an inferior education, then ask me why I might be offended by you suggestions. Having an opinion is great, but when your opinion starts stepping on the hopes and dreams of other, expect to receive a little backlash about it. The funny thing is, the people with all these negative opinions are very quick to get defensive about their right to have an opinion, yet you don't understand how your negative opinions might be offensive causing some of us to wonder how you can wonder how we wouldn't be offended!

You have a pleasant day as well.

j0nathanv · Jun 4, 2013

I find it laughable that people consider online schools as a "not up to par" with traditional schools argument. You know because your instructor reading from a powerpoint is such a quality type of education. Prospective employers do not ask where you went to school. They ask you if you have an active unencumbered license. That's all that matters.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 4, 2013

I find it laughable that people consider online schools as a "not up to par" with traditional schools argument. You know because your instructor reading from a powerpoint is such a quality type of education. Prospective employers do not ask where you went to school. They ask you if you have an active unencumbered license. That's all that matters.

I agree about the lecture part being similar...just one being in a classroom and the other being in the comfort of one's home. However, NP training is only half accomplished with lectures. The clinical rotations are so much more important as many would agree. If a school can arrange a student with expert preceptors whose clinical work is verifiable and whose clinical environment fosters learning, it makes a world of difference in the student experience. You can't just pick an NP friend or any random family physician for your preceptor. Preceptors should have a passion for teaching, have strong clinical skills, and stress the use of evidence base in practice. That's the difference we should strive for in NP education online or not and there are online programs that make sure this happens. Not sure about Walden though.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 4, 2013

You didn't read my post.....the post I was replying to was referring to the PROCESS of becoming an MD, not the quality of a program.
The PROCESS of becoming an MD is the same in all states. Quality of programs was never discussed.

I was referring to your words: Residency programs are consistent for the respective discipline in every state.

Perhaps that statement needed clarification.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · Jun 4, 2013

As inferior is the opposite of superior, so is better the enemy of good. Which school is better, Yale or Harvard, what about Princeton...etc. My point is, all of this is a matter of opinion, which in the greater scheme, is worthless. The standard for nurse practitioner schools is CCNE accreditation. All the opinion in the world wont effect credentialing boards, and online education is here to stay, and may eventually replace the traditional brick and mortar university, as evidenced by all of the brick and mortar universities that are moving toward the online format.
Someone stated that they didn't understand why people were getting offended by people opinions of online universities.....? How can anyone not be offended when the conversation at its very core suggests that those who choose or have no choice but to attend online universities are receiving an "inferior" education? If you as a person in a position to hire prospective nurse practitioners choose not to hire those who receive online educations, then that is you prerogative, but there will be those who will hire "us", and many will be getting great healthcare providers, as many who hire graduates of brick and motor universities will be getting "bad" providers. No school will graduate only good or bad nurse practitioners, but all schools will graduate many combinations of good and bad depending of the individuals that are receiving the education, and their ability to transfer that education to real world practice.

Jaysus, I give up. You didn't actually read a word I said, obviously, or you would know that I stated I do not agree that online education is inferior to B&M education. I never said I wouldn't hire an online grad. You clearly just decided to be offended by imaginary words, so there is no point in trying to converse with you.

Mark Hill BSN · Jun 4, 2013

Jaysus, I give up. You didn't actually read a word I said, obviously, or you would know that I stated I do not agree that online education is inferior to B&M education. I never said I wouldn't hire an online grad. You clearly just decided to be offended by imaginary words, so there is no point in trying to converse with you.

Obviously your words and action contradict one another, for if you really felt it was pointless to "converse with me" then you wouldn't converse with me, but I digress. I realize that your point in many ways mirrors mine, I guess my biggest problem is with the terminology of "inferior". I do take offence when people say that on-line education is inferior, when they don't have anything evidence based or otherwise that proves that. It is all based purely on opinion and speculation. I do believe that some schools are better than other, but I also believe if a motivated individual really wants to succeed, that success will have very little to do with where they attended nurse practitioner school. There is an old saying, that states, "some things are better left unsaid", this can be especially true when comparing educations among professionals.

I didn't rally mean to single you out, but more to address this general concept that all online, or even all for profit university's are scandalous and inferior. This idea is not only not true, but it is ridiculous, and yes, insulting.