Credibility of Walden University

myelin · May 27, 2013

I have said nothing against CCs, which can have highly competitive and excellent PA and RN programs, same with some international medical schools. I have serious problems with programs that have low and/or minimal standards, like Kaplan, Walden, UPhoenix, etc. However, I'm optimistic that the problem is self-correcting. As more and more graduates flood the market, employers will become picker about who they hire, which I was alluding to before.

Also, I'm not sure you want to go with Caribbean schools as an example, since students from those schools are finding it increasingly challenging to land residency in the US. Like I said, people coming from these programs can do just fine, but it's not like employers don't care about your school, especially if it's a desirable area where there are plenty of new NPs to choose from.

I apologize if you think I'm angry. I'm not at all. Perhaps it's tone not coming through well since this is the internet? I'm just stating what I've seen in the area and the bit that I know about what happens to fields as they get more competitive, market gets flooded, etc. As I said, people can do very well coming from these programs, but I think it's important to consider drawbacks.

KansasFNP · May 27, 2013

Myelin, I'm not sure if you are aware of how this program works but to even apply, you have to have two years of direct patient care as an RN, submit a CV and once accepted, maintain a B or better in all of your classes to pass. These requirements are more stringent than some of the traditional state universities in my area. I find it almost laughable how opposed individuals who have never attended an online program are to online programs! The rigor, personal fortitude and intact time mangagement and study skills needed to navigate an online program are no joke.

shepherd34 · May 27, 2013

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise

myelin · May 27, 2013

Walden has a 96% acceptance rate (as per us news and world report). I think this is problematic, for obvious reasons. Since the OP of this thread was concerned about credibility and perceptions of this program, the low standards are relevant. I'm not trying to offend people, truly, and I know people can be successful coming from programs like these. However, the drawbacks are significant as well. While I worry about the NP market getting flooded because of programs with very low admission standards, I'm noticing that employers are getting more choosy, so maybe the problem will correct itself. Time will tell. I'm just glad I'm in an unpopular specialty.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · May 28, 2013

Marketability in a certain area of the country is one thing, but insinuating that a graduate from a fully accredited university like Walden would or could not be elligable for any and all position that require a master degree is just not the truth. In many areas of the country Walden Universtiy has a very good reputation, and is well accepted. I will graduate in Feb of 2014 with a masters in FNP, and already have a very lucrative job offer with no question about what universty I attend. Most prospective emplyers what to see a license to practice, and a solid background in nursing, with little regard for what university I attended, nor do they care where I got my BSN, which is from a very reputable "brick and mortar" university. Reputation, when it comes to nursing schools is very overrated in my opinion. Good and bad nurses will graduated from all schools, just like good and bad doctors will graduate from all schools. No school graduates ONLY good nurse practitioners....and NO school will greaduate only bad nurse practitioners.

I didn't insinuate anything. In fact, I said specifically and plainly that I don't know anything about Walden's FNP program. I merely suggested that if one is going to be competing in the job market with graduates from one ought keep in mind they could be at a competitive disadvantage. I believe that speaks directly to the OPs query without insinuating a thing, or casting dispersions. I used a single anecdotal story to illustrate my thoughts. Take it FWIW, or leave it if you don't believe it applies to you.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · May 28, 2013

I am very curious...how much clinical experience did your friend have?
I have a very good rapport from an instructor at my MSN program and was considering nursing education for my MSN. At the time, I was a newer nurse with (at the time of thinking of applying) just two years of experience.
She told me that the nurses with a significant amount of med-surg experience were getting teaching jobs, but the ones with very little were not. This is at a regular college, not an online program.
I have a friend that is going through the FNP program at Walden and I told her that there is no way I would "chance" going through a brand new FNP program..to me, that was crazy. I do like how they have the program structured and she says it works well with her work schedule. We'll find out when she graduates, if she passes her boards and finds a job.
I'm going to let her be my test case.

I think she'd been a nurse about 25-30 years. I overstated the case when I referred to her as a friend. It would be more accurate to say acquaintance, former colleague. I only knew her as the nurse educator at our hospital, a position she held for the 10 years I worked with her. I really don't know what her experience entailed before that, except that it did include some critical care. I don't know the details of her CV. She had published one article, this I know for sure, because I gave her a co-authorship credit on one of mine regarding a PA catheter quality improvement project we implemented.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · May 28, 2013

I answered the posts directed at me before completing the thread. I think the Walden students are somewhat defensive, which I suppose is natural. No one one is saying you will be bad providers. I'm sure that nothing could be further from the truth. There is a very long thread below someplace asking if online education is hurting the credibility of NPs. I don't believe that it is, but nor do I believe that all education is equivalent and I think pretending otherwise is ridiculous. MIT and Harvard offer online classes. Are we going to suggest in the interest of political correctness that Walden is just as good as those schools? Come now, be serious. Well be prepared to admit then, that neither is at as good as Case Western, Duke, Rush, Penn, Yale, UCSF, etc. It simply is not, and no amount of arguing to the contrary will make it so.

That being said, yes, I do believe you can graduate from Walden and be a competent novice NP, absolutely. However, I just think the job market might be a little tougher starting out, which is all the OP really asked.

The OP asked a question of experienced providers, seeking opinions. We gave him/her some. Given a choice between a graduate of school a and a graduate of better known, more highly regarded school b with more stringent admission criteria, all other things being equal, who in their right mind would hire the person from school a? Probably no one. However, all other things are rarely equal, and therein lies the rub. It may not matter a whit. It may matter a great deal. I think it depends quite a bit on where you live and intend to practice, what your other qualifications are, how well you interview, and what kind of connections you have, and where you want to go with your career. If you want to have a concurrent career in academia, as I do, I'd stay away from what amounts to correspondance schools.

I can't assess those things in every individual case; individuals including the OP will have to assess their circumstances for themselves and make an informed choice based on personal goals, needs, commitments, and resources. Best of luck to all of you!

CookiePB · May 28, 2013

There is a very long thread below someplace asking if online education is hurting the credibility of NPs. I don't believe that it is, but nor do I believe that all education is equivalent and I think pretending otherwise is ridiculous. MIT and Harvard offer online classes. Are we going to suggest in the interest of political correctness that Walden is just as good as those schools? Come now, be serious. Well be prepared to admit then, that neither is at as good as Case Western, Duke, Rush, Penn, Yale, UCSF, etc. It simply is not, and no amount of arguing to the contrary will make it so.
That being said, yes, I do believe you can graduate from Walden and be a competent novice NP, absolutely. However, I just think the job market might be a little tougher starting out, which is all the OP really asked.

Well said.

megank5183 · May 29, 2013

The OP asked if going to Walden over a traditional school would hurt their credibility. My answer is yes, and if you have other options pursue them. This may be offensive to Walden or other for-profit school graduates, but it is the truth. No I am not presently in a position to hire anyone, but if I was, I would most likely not hire them over a traditional candidate. There are many online forums of students who, after graduating, realized that their education was useless. There have been media investigations into the scam that is for profit schools....a simple google search will show a plethora of such accounts. The people responding this way are just trying to give their opinion to the OP's question, which is the point of allnurses. People are free to disagree, but attacking people for their honest opinions does not help anyone!

Mark Hill BSN · May 29, 2013

I answered the posts directed at me before completing the thread. I think the Walden students are somewhat defensive, which I suppose is natural. No one one is saying you will be bad providers. I'm sure that nothing could be further from the truth. There is a very long thread below someplace asking if online education is hurting the credibility of NPs. I don't believe that it is, but nor do I believe that all education is equivalent and I think pretending otherwise is ridiculous. MIT and Harvard offer online classes. Are we going to suggest in the interest of political correctness that Walden is just as good as those schools? Come now, be serious. Well be prepared to admit then, that neither is at as good as Case Western, Duke, Rush, Penn, Yale, UCSF, etc. It simply is not, and no amount of arguing to the contrary will make it so.
That being said, yes, I do believe you can graduate from Walden and be a competent novice NP, absolutely. However, I just think the job market might be a little tougher starting out, which is all the OP really asked.
The OP asked a question of experienced providers, seeking opinions. We gave him/her some. Given a choice between a graduate of school a and a graduate of better known, more highly regarded school b with more stringent admission criteria, all other things being equal, who in their right mind would hire the person from school a? Probably no one. However, all other things are rarely equal, and therein lies the rub. It may not matter a whit. It may matter a great deal. I think it depends quite a bit on where you live and intend to practice, what your other qualifications are, how well you interview, and what kind of connections you have, and where you want to go with your career. If you want to have a concurrent career in academia, as I do, I'd stay away from what amounts to correspondance schools.
I can't assess those things in every individual case; individuals including the OP will have to assess their circumstances for themselves and make an informed choice based on personal goals, needs, commitments, and resources. Best of luck to all of you!

This seems to insinuate that if a nurse didn't graduate from a ivy league school that they somehow received an inferior education. Wow.... if that is the case then there are hundreds of thousands of nurses practicing all over the US with sub-par educations. I don't think anyone from Walden has suggested that we are comparing the school to Harvard, all we are saying is that the online format, is no less capable of preparing nurses to nurse practitioner than "in class" formats. As far as Walden goes, How would you know if it is an inferior school unless you have attended...? I recently spoke with one of my instructors on the phone who is also a professor at Loyola, she told me that the curriculum at Walden is as good or better than any she has been associated with in her 20 year as an educator. She received her doctoral doctoral degree from LSU and has an impeccable resume. I personally don't feel slighted in my educational experience as Walden at all. As a 23 year veteran of the nursing field, I feel comfortable I saying that an education from Walden will not hinder my career goals at all. No opinions will change the fact that good and bad nurse practitioners will graduate from Walden's program just as they do from all nurse practitioner programs. Unless only good, well educated, and totally prepared students graduate from Harvard, Yale, Rush...ect.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · May 29, 2013

I just saw an ad that said 'no graduates from online or professional universities need apply'. However, I'm in a highly competitive area. It probably depends on your background and where you are. If they're hurting for NPs, then you have an advantage. If you're in an area with many competitive programs pumping out graduates, you might have a rough time coming from one of these universities.
Not to mention, these schools have low/no standards, so that is obviously bad for the field... which employers are starting to figure out.

If all of these online schools that have NP programs have such low standards, then would you care to share with us how the graduates are passing their certification exams and getting credentialed???

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · May 29, 2013

I just saw an ad that said 'no graduates from online or professional universities need apply'. However, I'm in a highly competitive area. It probably depends on your background and where you are. If they're hurting for NPs, then you have an advantage. If you're in an area with many competitive programs pumping out graduates, you might have a rough time coming from one of these universities.
Not to mention, these schools have low/no standards, so that is obviously bad for the field... which employers are starting to figure out.

Vanderbilt has several online programs....very sad that they are seen as not credible.