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COVID: I'm ready to leave the hospital until the end of the pandemic guilt

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Specializes in Cardiac, Telemetry. Has 3 years experience.

Hello!

I am considering leaving the hospital until the end of the pandemic. Not necessarily because of the ill patients. Mostly because of the politics. I understand that there is a shortage of staff for COVID units. My issue is, the hospital I work for is constantly creating new COVID units for patients that are asymptomatic. I've learned these hospitals are getting additional funding from the relief programs put in place by the government. The hospitals gain additional funding if the patients are placed on vents as well. I've noticed MDs and rr therapists are forcing us to place them on vents even if they do not meet the criteria.....

I am becoming extremely overwhelmed and am sick of what I am seeing. I hate how the system is taking advantage of these extremely difficult and emotional taxing times...I don't want to be a part of this anymore.

Am I wrong?

No.  You are lucky to be in a position where you can act according to your ethics.  Just make certain you don't voice your viewpoint at the wrong time or with the wrong persons.  Good luck to you.

Nurse SMS, MSN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development. Has 10 years experience.

On 11/22/2020 at 6:38 PM, CardiTeleRN said:

Hello!

I am considering leaving the hospital until the end of the pandemic. Not necessarily because of the ill patients. Mostly because of the politics. I understand that there is a shortage of staff for COVID units. My issue is, the hospital I work for is constantly creating new COVID units for patients that are asymptomatic. I've learned these hospitals are getting additional funding from the relief programs put in place by the government. The hospitals gain additional funding if the patients are placed on vents as well. I've noticed MDs and rr therapists are forcing us to place them on vents even if they do not meet the criteria.....

I am becoming extremely overwhelmed and am sick of what I am seeing. I hate how the system is taking advantage of these extremely difficult and emotional taxing times...I don't want to be a part of this anymore.

Am I wrong?

If these things are truly happening you have an ethical duty to whistleblow.

Uh, yikes. I agree with whistleblowing to the state and regulatory agencies. 

MunoRN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. Has 10 years experience.

There's not really anything that isn't possible these days when it comes to billing, but your description is implausible at the very least.

There is a reimbursement 'bump' for hospitals that care for Covid patients, but it doesn't go to doctors or respiratory therapists.  Intubating patients who the doctors and respiratory therapists would know don't need to intubated is not just medicare fraud, it's felony assault, ie jail time.  It would seem unlikely that doctors and respiratory therapists would risk jail in exchange for nothing.  And that this wouldn't be limited to just one doctor or respiratory therapist since multiple MDs and RTs would have to be in on it.

speedynurse, ADN, RN, EMT-P

Specializes in ER, Pre-Op, PACU.

On 11/22/2020 at 6:38 PM, CardiTeleRN said:

Hello!

I am considering leaving the hospital until the end of the pandemic. Not necessarily because of the ill patients. Mostly because of the politics. I understand that there is a shortage of staff for COVID units. My issue is, the hospital I work for is constantly creating new COVID units for patients that are asymptomatic. I've learned these hospitals are getting additional funding from the relief programs put in place by the government. The hospitals gain additional funding if the patients are placed on vents as well. I've noticed MDs and rr therapists are forcing us to place them on vents even if they do not meet the criteria.....

I am becoming extremely overwhelmed and am sick of what I am seeing. I hate how the system is taking advantage of these extremely difficult and emotional taxing times...I don't want to be a part of this anymore.

Am I wrong?

I think covid has raised a lot of ethical issues in healthcare....or maybe I should say increased ethical issues that always existed. I do think that’s completely unethical....I know I saw unethical things in the ER and I was so glad to leave but they were more because of the multiple patients piling up without enough staff....like many if not most ERs. I am in a another field that I am much happier now.....I think you have a decision to make and only you can make it.

On 11/24/2020 at 12:39 AM, MunoRN said:

There's not really anything that isn't possible these days when it comes to billing, but your description is implausible at the very least.

There is a reimbursement 'bump' for hospitals that care for Covid patients, but it doesn't go to doctors or respiratory therapists.  Intubating patients who the doctors and respiratory therapists would know don't need to intubated is not just medicare fraud, it's felony assault, ie jail time.  It would seem unlikely that doctors and respiratory therapists would risk jail in exchange for nothing.  And that this wouldn't be limited to just one doctor or respiratory therapist since multiple MDs and RTs would have to be in on it.

Thank you for being so tactical in your response.  Aint nobody trying to intubate patients for money.  

To clarify, they aren't intubating the asymptomatic patients, correct? 

CardiTeleRN, BSN

Specializes in Cardiac, Telemetry. Has 3 years experience.

They have before and continue to push to do so. Some patients know enough to say no. Some experience very minor symptoms but are stable and they’ll intubate. The problem with health care is the majority looking to defend the poor decisions of the system. I wish I could just care for patients without the horrible management. 

Emergent, RN

Specializes in ER. Has 28 years experience.

I am unconvinced as to the veracity of this post.

Well I do know for certain that in these patients that are covid positive the last thing that they want to do is put them on a ventilator because it's an autoimmune response when that occurs and they do not do well. In the first month or two it was a 80% mortality rate when these symptomatic patients were put on the ventilators. But you are right it is all about the reimbursement for these hospitals. Why else do you think they test every patient that is admitted and every patient that has a procedure in each facility? And if you come in with shortness of breath or cough or fever and they test you and your negative they will test you three four five more times until there is a positive.

CardiTeleRN, BSN

Specializes in Cardiac, Telemetry. Has 3 years experience.

Just now, Emergent said:

I am unconvinced as to the veracity of this post.

and that’s a part of the problem. I’ve experienced this on a personal level as well. I actually felt the need to bring it to the public’s attention since I have experienced it on a personal level and have wondered who is speaking for patients that are experiencing these circumstances. So sorry you don’t believe someone who is witnessing it first hand. Sorry for your ignorance because if it is you plainly turning a blind to the issues, you do not belong in health care. There needs to be a major reform.

CardiTeleRN, BSN

Specializes in Cardiac, Telemetry. Has 3 years experience.

1 minute ago, Jack Peace said:

Well I do know for certain that in these patients that are covid positive the last thing that they want to do is put them on a ventilator because it's an autoimmune response when that occurs and they do not do well. In the first month or two it was a 80% mortality rate when these symptomatic patients were put on the ventilators. But you are right it is all about the reimbursement for these hospitals. Why else do you think they test every patient that is admitted and every patient that has a procedure in each facility? And if you come in with shortness of breath or cough or fever and they test you and your negative they will test you three four five more times until there is a positive.

They don’t do well at all!! They go from tachypnea being their only symptom with stable satO2 to intubation suggestion

Emergent, RN

Specializes in ER. Has 28 years experience.

10 hours ago, CardiTeleRN said:

and that’s a part of the problem. I’ve experienced this on a personal level as well. I actually felt the need to bring it to the public’s attention since I have experienced it on a personal level and have wondered who is speaking for patients that are experiencing these circumstances. So sorry you don’t believe someone who is witnessing it first hand. Sorry for your ignorance because if it is you plainly turning a blind to the issues, you do not belong in health care. There needs to be a major reform.

You can't kick people out of healthcare because they don't believe something they read on a discussion forum. Healthcare needs many voices. 

If you really believe this is true, do not participate and report these providers to the proper authorities.  Otherwise, you are just as guilty as they are. I, as a CRNA, am grateful everyone is tested.  That way, I can better protect myself, my family, my colleagues can protect themselves, and the public can be protected from the patient and their infected families.  

macawake, MSN

Has 13 years experience.

On 11/23/2020 at 12:38 AM, CardiTeleRN said:

I've noticed MDs and rr therapists are forcing us to place them on vents even if they do not meet the criteria.....

 

13 hours ago, CardiTeleRN said:

I actually felt the need to bring it to the public’s attention since I have experienced it on a personal level and have wondered who is speaking for patients that are experiencing these circumstances. So sorry you don’t believe someone who is witnessing it first hand.

As an RN, are you the one who places patients on vents? You say that physicians and respiratory therapists are forcing you?

I you witness assaults occur at your place of work, posting anonymously on a forum is not the correct way to act. How is anyone here supposed to do anything about what you claim is happening on unit x in hospital y?  As others have said, there are proper authorities that you as a licensed healthcare professional should be reporting to. You don’t just ”put the word out” to Joe Public via an online forum. What possible good would that accomplish? Scaring every person who needs to go to an emergency room into refraining and staying at home instead? How is that helping patients?

I’ll admit that I am sceptical of your narrative. It doesn’t seem logical nor plausible to me. But if you are observing ethical or legal breaches take place, I think you have responsibility to report it. The correct way. 
 

 

Edited by macawake

Hoosier_RN, MSN

Specializes in dialysis. Has 28 years experience.

59 minutes ago, macawake said:

But if you are observing ethical or legal breaches take place, I think you have responsibility to report it. The correct way. 

 

To the OP: if you don't report this, you are just as liable of guilt as those that you accuse

On 11/24/2020 at 12:39 AM, MunoRN said:

There's not really anything that isn't possible these days when it comes to billing, but your description is implausible at the very least.

There is a reimbursement 'bump' for hospitals that care for Covid patients, but it doesn't go to doctors or respiratory therapists.  Intubating patients who the doctors and respiratory therapists would know don't need to intubated is not just medicare fraud, it's felony assault, ie jail time.  It would seem unlikely that doctors and respiratory therapists would risk jail in exchange for nothing.  And that this wouldn't be limited to just one doctor or respiratory therapist since multiple MDs and RTs would have to be in on it.

So you think CardiTeleRN and all the other RNs with similar stories are lying then?