I've been a lurker for awhile, and I know that this post has been brought up 1-2 times in the last 2 years that I've been an RN. So... you grouchy old farts that would rather I'd revive an old post can just stuff a sock in it. I want to gauge opinions based on our CURRENT situation after the shooting yesterday in San Bernadino, CA.
Truth be told, One single caregiver with a concealed carry permit could have shut this couple down before they hit 14 fatalities.
I plan on getting my CC in January, but I know as an RN, should my handgun be discovered, I'll probably lose my license. It will stay in my car when I am at work. If someone wants to carry out mayhem at my workplace, we are ALL sitting ducks. It is not ok or fair. What are your thoughts?
I was standing at one of the ICU nursing stations at Loma Linda when a staff member ran through telling everyone to prepare to receive mass casualties, there was an active shooter up the street, approx 20 casualties.
The initial reports that were received was that it was some kind of a healthcare related facility. Everyone immediately became worried considering Loma Linda is by far the largest and most high profile facility in the area.
Later on a everyone was notified of a bomb threat, which really freaked everyone out because we knew they had found explosives with he terrorists. People were locked down for hours.
When drove back to the hotel I found that the hotel was being barricaded. My hotel was on Waterman less than a block South of the attack. You know the news conferences you saw on TV and all the reporters? They were reporting from the lawn in front of the hotel. The SB police Sargent who was doing to hourly updates? She was in the lobby and conference room the police got (almost ran her over in the parking lot when she walked out between some cars while she was texting)
I left the hospital and pulled over when I saw the road blocks on Waterman and the 10 fwy. I was parked across from a church and watched about 15 police cars scream past into the church parking lot and an army of policy carrying super movie scary AR-15s run and secure the church. I was not sure if the suspects were shooting up the church so I decided it might be best to move along.
Tried to approach from the hotel from the North when as I was driving through a residential neighborhood I saw a bunch of kids running with their parents across the street. Look to my right and hundreds of kids are outside of the school herded on the lawn and parents are frantically grabbing their kids. Then I heard on the radio that a suspicious person fitting the description was seen hiding in the bushes by the school. Great.
I find that the road is blocked from the North so I go around and end up at a shopping center North of the freeway but just South of the hotel. I am eating at a Five Guys when I see police roll up into the shopping center and block it off. Then I hear that there is in active shooter in the shopping center. Great. Can't even enjoy my fries. It was later cleared but then an old Vietnam vet comes in asking to borrow my phone, his service is not working. I let him and he leaves a message for his wife. He tells me...with tears in his eyes...that his wife is stuck in a building they are clearing across the street by the hotel and he cannot get a hold of her and they won't let him in to pull her out. He sat there for 20 minutes holding back his tears until she came in. One of the most heart wrenching things I ever saw. You could feel his pain and anxiety.
I drive through some parking lots (and maybe over a median or two in the rental) and get to the hotel.
Sitting in the hotel watching the sharp shooter on the roof who is about 30 yards from me eat sunflower seeds. Then the world goes crazy as the helicopters and Homeland Security airplane go ripping past along with 20-30-maybe 40? police cars with 2 armored vehicles. Pop, pop, popopopopop, pop. About a mile away they get into the second gunfight. I can actually see the neighborhood from the top floor of the hotel I was in, couldn't see the suspects though due to the houses blocking my line of sight.
Just flew out today.
What I can tell you is that there was no one to protect anyone at the hospital or hotel until after the shooting began. The terrorists literally had to drive by the hotel to get to the office building and you can clearly see the hospital just South of the freeway.
I do carry a firearm when I am home in Arizona but generally do not carry conceal when I am traveling. I am reconsidering that.
I would settle for armed security guards. I am all for CC, but I recognize that it requires an enormous amount of responsibility. Perhaps if they developed a special certification for CC in the workplace? I would certainly feel safer if I knew that someone I trusted was carrying, but I don't trust that one gun safety course is enough to ensure the safe use of a weapon in an emergency situation.
As a side note, ^ asystoleRN that is a terrifying experience. I am glad you are ok
I would settle for armed security guards. I am all for CC, but I recognize that it requires an enormous amount of responsibility. Perhaps if they developed a special certification for CC in the workplace? I would certainly feel safer if I knew that someone I trusted was carrying, but I don't trust that one gun safety course is enough to ensure the safe use of a weapon in an emergency situation.
Many gun owners would agree with this, well maybe not a security guard with his GED making minimum wage, but hiring more police.
There are actually a lot of hospitals who have police as their security. I do not mean they hire security guards who are doing it as a side gig while they are a police officer full-time, I mean they are police officers stationed at the hospital and that is what they do full time. Even have K-9 units. It's popular in Texas.
I personally own and carry firearms because I really do hunt and carry for defensive reasons. Honestly though, I still believe that the only reason why we have a 1st is because of the 2nd. We are without a doubt a unique country in the world. We have had out issues while we have learned how to do this called freedom but without a doubt we have lead the way. Freedom is dangerous but I still believe in it.
I just don't understand how you guys can be on your what...335th? shooting this year, twice this week, and STILL think the answer is more guns! Do you not know what life is like in every first world country except the united states? It honestly frightens me.
Many gun owners would agree with this, well maybe not a security guard with his GED making minimum wage, but hiring more police.
There are actually a lot of hospitals who have police as their security. I do not mean they hire security guards who are doing it as a side gig while they are a police officer full-time, I mean they are police officers stationed at the hospital and that is what they do full time. Even have K-9 units. It's popular in Texas.
I suppose it depends on the type of healthcare environment you are in. Our security officers are generally retired military or police, and if not they are still highly trained in managing hostile patients/visitors. It isn't like they sit behind a desk and open doors for a living, they are utilized fairly frequently. They are probably better than most cops are at dealing with someone with mental health issues or during an emotional crisis. I would feel perfectly safe if one of them was carrying a weapon.
#1 You wouldn't shoot at the attacker unless you had a good shot............common sense
#2 Know your target and what is beyond it at all times
#3 You could take a defensive position and let the attacker come to you, they would never even know where the shot came from before they hit the ground.
#4 A 40 cal or a 45 center mass shot with body armor on would still knock the attacker flat on their back, knock the wind out of them and probably break ribs.
A little common sense would go a long way in this scenario. I dont even have a CCW because it is against the law to carry a gun anywhere I would want to carry one anyways. If it was made legal to CC at work and by the nursing board then I would definately get my CCW.
Any round that has the power to knock the recipient flat on their back would be powerful enough to knock the shooter on their backsides. Break ribs? Maybe. Might cause a good-sized bruise though. Knock the wind out of them for a while? Possibly.
I generally don't get involved in such heated debates where the other side is always wrong and don't always like getting political... but to reiterate what others have said:
1) generally, those folks responsible enough to legally carry with a concealed permit will educate/train enough to know their weapon/weapons/weapons in general to feel comfortable utilizing them. at least to me, the whole point of a concealed carry, is for such an emergency situation (out at the store, movies whatever, see bad stuff go down & intervene). YES, you run a risk by attempting to help, but that is something the individual must decide themselves. Weigh the options, present facts, situation, number of bad guys, weapons you know are present on them etc. and then make the appropriate decision for themselves. (Once again, when I think of myself and others with a concealed permit, I practice and educate enough and purposely in such a hectic situation where others plan & implement the craziness and you must react to the best of your capabilities. To me, that's common sense, but apparently not all.)
2) I may not have numbers (so yes, discredit me) but the vast majority of these shootings/terrorist attacks etc are perpetrated by individuals with ILLEGAL weapons. So yes Mr. Obama and government, make gun control more stringent. And you continue to delude yourself that the CRIMINALS will actually listen to your new laws. More strict gun control only harms those who obtain weapons LEGALLY, apply for permit, background checks and the like.
3) Body armor: I've seen my share of those testing such armor and done so myself (good times!) and it will almost always knock you on your bottom (unless you have a wall supporting you). Knocks the wind out of you, breaks ribs, etc. Disorients some (I imagine these CA folks would not have been disoriented as they seem to have had extensive experience, preparation and equipment). however, if you know there are two, remain under cover as best you can. When you know it is safe (or when another CC individual attempts to help) get close, remove helmet (if present) and sorry but if it's either him or me, and I'm capable of it (physically, equipment etc) you damn well better believe it will be his ass, not mine. Again, the whole common sense and making your own choice comes into play here.
I'm sure most healthcare facilities make it illegal for employees to carry on duty. But, if I'm working, able to safely get to vehicle & obtain my weapon, why would I not try to take out the bad guy and safe the innocent if I'm appropriately trained and able? Let them fire me afterwards. If you safe one life, isn't that worth it?
Why is it we don't hear much about those home invasions/public attacks where a legally concealed carrier takes out the bad guy & saves lives? About two months ago, I heard/saw a story online about a woman who went to church, left her handgun in her purse and after the invader shot 2 other churchgoers, she was able to successfully take him out. Kudos to her.
Like mentioned before, most generally take into account their upbringing and exposure to things in prior years, when formulating feelings about anything. I was raised around guns, in a rural setting. My father kept the guns
(handguns and rifles) under lock & key, ammo stored separately. When my brother & I were of age to understand and be taught by my father, we practiced at a gun range and learned the location of the key. We were required to take a gun safety & training course by my folks. And then when we took our first 'hunting safety' course when of proper age, everything was pretty much old hat to us. Point being, he was responsible and used simple common sense to prevent a senseless tragedy we seem to hear about so often. We were educated about the responsibility guns carry with it. I guess I was very fortunate to have great, responsible parents with a patient father in all aspects and especially this, passing on of the common sense. Thus, to me, guns are really no big deal (as long as a young child or somebody with no understanding of them or mentally unstable are holding one on me or a loved one). They are commonplace, just like sunglasses or air fresheners in my vehicle.
I genuinely don't mean to offend, but this topic gets me fired up, so I'm somewhat sarcastic here to wrap up my 1st amendment rights to say what I feel. These rights of course being won & defended by GUNS, as are your 1st amendment rights; just something to consider)
When my brother & I were growing up, there was a T-shirt released with a quote and photo of a handgun on a solid black background. "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." Doesn't get much more real than that. If you're offended by my comments, I hope someday we're in an emergent situation together, I'll pull out my trusty 9MM or .380 , you let me know how you feel so I can apologize & let you close your eyes before I pull the trigger in front of you.
Not necessarily. It's the ridiculous tactical icons that people feel that they are entitled to that really needs to be scaled back. Shotguns and rifles have purposes (and handguns, too, and tactical weapons, in the hands of trained LEOs and military folks) that must be respected. Wanting to be decked out like you're going all Call of Duty on us is really inappropriate and completely disrespects that these are instruments of war. That's where I think the "hobby" mentality that converges with the right to keep and bear arms needs to be reexamined and called out.
So, your definition of a "weird fascination as a hobby" is defined as the ridiculous tactical icons.....that need to be scaled back.
Someone else's definition of a "weird fascination as a hobby" are the shotguns and rifles that are 'ok' as far as you are concerned.
Some also have a zero gun tolerance mentality.
And that was my point. Everyone has a different level of comfort with where to draw the line.
I grew up with the guys in my high school pulling into the school parking lot with their favorite .22 and shotgun hanging off the gun rack in the back window of their pickup truck. There it sat, right there in the window, ALL day long. No. One. Where I lived batted an eye back then.
Also: No. One. Anywhere near where I lived went around and caused mass murders back then.
What changed? Did guns become more available? Did bullets become more available?
We are a society that seeks to fix problems in the most visible and results-oriented way possible. Ban guns? Sure ~ EVERYONE will notice that something was done. Problem solved.
I would like for you to look up a Texas police officer who gave 2 head shots on weapon carrying, body armor wearing civilians when they were trying to instigate a mass shooting event. We take our weapons training seriously. God Bless Texas.
We have excellent professional security at work. We also typically have police and correctional officers on site due to our clientel. I'm happy to let them worry about any armed intruders. That said, I do carry concealed other places and to and from work because I don't commute with an armed officer and response time is less than adequate if I need help.
If the concert in Paris had the same security as the soccer match, there would have been much fewer victims. Armed security in San Bernardino would have likely made a huge difference. Certainly, being sitting ducks was a poor defense.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
A head shot in a crowd of panicky people, trying to hit a moving target while also trying to remain calm as you're being fired upon? Good luck with that. The answer to gun violence isn't for everyone and their brother to carry a gun.
(Shrug) I have made that shot several times. In one case after having already been shot myself.
I want to gauge opinions based on our CURRENT situation after the shooting yesterday in San Bernadino, CA. 
.thumb.png.25dc111ae613e658de4a048da55b3337.png){kind=small}
Asystole RN
2,352 Posts
This whole event really struck home for me.
I was standing at one of the ICU nursing stations at Loma Linda when a staff member ran through telling everyone to prepare to receive mass casualties, there was an active shooter up the street, approx 20 casualties.
The initial reports that were received was that it was some kind of a healthcare related facility. Everyone immediately became worried considering Loma Linda is by far the largest and most high profile facility in the area.
Later on a everyone was notified of a bomb threat, which really freaked everyone out because we knew they had found explosives with he terrorists. People were locked down for hours.
When drove back to the hotel I found that the hotel was being barricaded. My hotel was on Waterman less than a block South of the attack. You know the news conferences you saw on TV and all the reporters? They were reporting from the lawn in front of the hotel. The SB police Sargent who was doing to hourly updates? She was in the lobby and conference room the police got (almost ran her over in the parking lot when she walked out between some cars while she was texting)
I left the hospital and pulled over when I saw the road blocks on Waterman and the 10 fwy. I was parked across from a church and watched about 15 police cars scream past into the church parking lot and an army of policy carrying super movie scary AR-15s run and secure the church. I was not sure if the suspects were shooting up the church so I decided it might be best to move along.
Tried to approach from the hotel from the North when as I was driving through a residential neighborhood I saw a bunch of kids running with their parents across the street. Look to my right and hundreds of kids are outside of the school herded on the lawn and parents are frantically grabbing their kids. Then I heard on the radio that a suspicious person fitting the description was seen hiding in the bushes by the school. Great.
I find that the road is blocked from the North so I go around and end up at a shopping center North of the freeway but just South of the hotel. I am eating at a Five Guys when I see police roll up into the shopping center and block it off. Then I hear that there is in active shooter in the shopping center. Great. Can't even enjoy my fries. It was later cleared but then an old Vietnam vet comes in asking to borrow my phone, his service is not working. I let him and he leaves a message for his wife. He tells me...with tears in his eyes...that his wife is stuck in a building they are clearing across the street by the hotel and he cannot get a hold of her and they won't let him in to pull her out. He sat there for 20 minutes holding back his tears until she came in. One of the most heart wrenching things I ever saw. You could feel his pain and anxiety.
I drive through some parking lots (and maybe over a median or two in the rental) and get to the hotel.
Sitting in the hotel watching the sharp shooter on the roof who is about 30 yards from me eat sunflower seeds. Then the world goes crazy as the helicopters and Homeland Security airplane go ripping past along with 20-30-maybe 40? police cars with 2 armored vehicles. Pop, pop, popopopopop, pop. About a mile away they get into the second gunfight. I can actually see the neighborhood from the top floor of the hotel I was in, couldn't see the suspects though due to the houses blocking my line of sight.
Just flew out today.
What I can tell you is that there was no one to protect anyone at the hospital or hotel until after the shooting began. The terrorists literally had to drive by the hotel to get to the office building and you can clearly see the hospital just South of the freeway.
I do carry a firearm when I am home in Arizona but generally do not carry conceal when I am traveling. I am reconsidering that.