Compassion required???

noahsmama · May 23, 2011

That paired with over saturation of the market led to the feeling like I was always competing for my job because there were many many fresh out of school faces willing to work for half the price.

This happens in nursing too.

Music in My Heart · May 23, 2011

Perhaps I can identify with you... but only to a degree.

I came out of an engineering career (which was pretty successful by most standards) which, almost by definition, means that one is logical, detail-oriented, objective, mindful of efficiency and constraints, and able to cope with limited resources and tight deadlines. I was drawn to nursing for a variety of reasons but admittedly, chief among them was the hope for decent pay and job security in my chosen location of residence.

Some 18 months later, I think the trajectory of my nursing career is about as good as anybody's (although I find myself at a hospital with poor compensation and a dearth of security).

While I think professionalism and work ethic go a long way and that compassion/empathy are not necessarily required to be a functional nurse, I do think that they are required in order to be an excellent nurse.

Most concerning to me in your description of yourself are the statements, "I will not pretend to be sympathetic or empathetic"; "I don't feel sorry for the sick or injured"; and "Without WANTING to be a nurse." Those attitudes will be perfectly clear to many of your patients and their families and will create unnecessary stress for them at a time that they don't need it. While I certainly don't have sympathy or empathy for some of my patients, for the most part, I find elements of their stories with which I can identify... and empathize with.

As anybody who's read my posts over the last 4 years probably knows, I'm the first one to say that nursing need not be a calling and that it's primarily a job. However, it's not *just* a job but one that entails a substantial amount interpersonal interaction and emotional support.

I have had several opportunities to be a consumer of nursing services as well as having worked in med-surg and ER. Based on those experiences I would say that someone with your attitude really has no place being a nurse.

Perhaps you should consider a field like RT, radiologic technology, or medicine. Nursing really isn't for you.

jesskidding, LPN · May 23, 2011

Without WANTING to help the sick and injured I can still be a great nurse in my opinion. I'm not saying I would have a problem carrying out the duties of a nurse, but honestly it isn't what I wake up wanting to do. I am not a Mother Teresa. I want to be a nurse, like I said, to have the money, flexibility, and job security. I didn't even consider being a nurse until I realized the pay rate and demand. Don't get me wrong - I will do the job and do it to the best of my ability and I will follow direction easily without involving my own opinions, but I will not pretend to be sympathetic or empathetic. Thats just me.

Ummmm....sure? I guess you could be a good nurse, but I wouldn't want you caring for me or my family. Good luck.

Moogie · May 23, 2011

I have to admit, I am doing it for the money and job stability. I will most likely never work full time and I will never bring my work home with me WHEN POSSIBLE. I don't feel sorry for the sick, the injured, the unfortunate - IMO thats the way the world turns.

Without WANTING to help the sick and injured I can still be a great nurse in my opinion. I'm not saying I would have a problem carrying out the duties of a nurse, but honestly it isn't what I wake up wanting to do. I am not a Mother Teresa. I want to be a nurse, like I said, to have the money, flexibility, and job security. I didn't even consider being a nurse until I realized the pay rate and demand. Don't get me wrong - I will do the job and do it to the best of my ability and I will follow direction easily without involving my own opinions, but I will not pretend to be sympathetic or empathetic.

I hope I don't sound too blunt, but I don't think you are going to be happy with nursing. While many schools still tout nursing as a "recession-proof" profession, the reality is that many new graduates from practical/vocational nurses to BSNs are having trouble finding jobs. There are unemployed nursing graduates from 2009 on these boards who have sent out hundreds of resumes and have not had a nibble. Although there is a nursing shortage predicted due to baby boomers aging and retiring, that doesn't help those who are looking for work right now. Job stability is non-existant, especially in right to work states or non-union facilities. Many facilities have laid off workers and, of course, the most recently hired are often the first ones fired.

With budget crises in many hospitals and decreasing Medicare funds, some nurses have failed to receive cost of living pay raises. There is talk of decreasing nurse wages in some places. While nursing does pay better than many other fields, the nurse has to deal with communicable diseases, bodily waste, death, and human emotions. If you don't get something out of that kind of work, is the monetary reward worth it?

You don't have to be a Mother Teresa, oozing with empathy, to be a nurse. However, you will be working with people who are in crisis. They are at their worst moments in life, often behaving badly. When someone is a patient in the hospital, it IS all about that person and drama can ensue. Staff can become dramatic, too, because they're stressed. If you can't handle drama, nursing is probably not a good career choice for you.

I agree with leenak. Before you change careers, make sure that you've exhausted your possibilities in engineering. Otherwise you are going to be stuck with two careers that didn't pan out for you.

ETA: also, make sure your family isn't pressuring you unduly. Just because many of them are in health related professions, it doesn't mean nursing is a good choice for you. Don't follow someone else's idea of what your life should be.

Music in My Heart · May 23, 2011

Oh yeah.... I earned far more as an engineer than I do as a nurse. And the work was far more intellectually stimulating... and much cleaner... and much safer.

What it lacked was what I experienced during my last shift: The heartfelt thanks of someone to whom I brought some peace and comfort during a very difficult time... mostly because I was able to empathize with the stress that she was facing.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · May 23, 2011

The issue of compassion is very well debated amongst our ranks. Some say nursing requires it, others say you can skate through your career without it but you won't be much of a nurse. I'm in the middle with it TBH. Often, after reading through a debate about weather nursing truly requires "compassion" or what some name "A calling", I often wonder if both sides are actually on the same side and are arguing semantics rather than moral issues:

"It's tissue"................."No, it's Kleenex"......................."But only tissue works right"....................."I've seen Kleenex work better."

Back and forth it goes, with people drawing very subjective lines between the two sides:

"Tissue is more appreciated by the patients and is more holistic."......................"Kleenex is smarter, more in control and gets it's work done."...................."Tissue is more able to deliver needs that can't be taught in a book."................."Kleenex doesn't get emotionally involved and avoids the burn out pit falls better."

In the end, you have hundreds of threads that are all the same, complete photocopies of one another: Tissue thinks its more personable and reflects the true values of nursing, Kleenex believes it's smarter and more effective. Both sides claim exclusive rights to their subjective "advantages", and no one is convinced anyone else knows what they are talking about.

What I often find lacking in these threads is a clear, concise definition of what compassion is. How do you define a "task oriented, only there for the paycheck" nurse vs. a "compassionate nurse"? How does one decide when a nurse is acting out of compassion and when they are simply getting their work done? Is there a definition out there that works, regardless of variables, at all times to define compassion? It's kinda like the question that a lot of Psych. instructors like to begin each semester with: "What is normal?" We all have our own definitions of such, given a lineup of people to define as "normal" or "abnormal" we could do it...............but we can't really put into words how we got to our conclusions.

There isn't a clear, complete, cover all bases definition. Nursing is aesthetic, 2+2 does not always equal 4. In any given clinical situation, action "A" could be more "compassionate" while action "B" might be more correct from a clinical stance. People on the tissue side of the argument will be more inclined towards action "A", people from the Kleenex side more towards action "B". Is either right in the end if no harm comes to the patient? Not really.

And that is why I am in the middle of it all. The flaw with digging in and insisting either tissue or Kleenex is right is: We cover the truth, which is both are right and at the same time both are wrong, hence being completely married to one or the other leads to us shorting ourselves as nurses. We have not yet discussed action "C": This nurses, while performing the clinical decisions of Kleenex is able to use the personal skills of tissue to do so in a non-mechanical nature. Ever see that nurse who can inform a patient they are NPO, and somehow the pt. is happy about it and completely on board with it? Even meet that nurse who can walk into a room after they learned about some bad results from a diagnostic test and have them laughing again in less than 5 minutes................AND doesn't fall behind on other responsibilities with other patients while doing so? I've seen these "action C" nurses. They combine the better aspects of tissue and Kleenex to form..........IDK, Puffs or something else completely new that is "more right" than the other two. Kinda like NCLEX exam questions...............all the answers are right, but one is more right.

In the end, I think that is the answer. Is compassion "required"? No. Many nurses who are wonderful at what they do lack in "people skills". And, on the flip side of the coin, just as many nurses who have the person to person skills never catch on to the clinical side of things, because they assume they've already "arrived" as a nurse since they have the people skills.

Is compassion required to be a great nurse? Yes. But thats your hurdle as you learn how to grow and develop during your career, if being a great nurse is your goal. We all have our areas for improvement before we are considered truly professional nurses.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · May 23, 2011

Can I delete a post? This one is doubled from a mistake I made trying to reply to another reply...* :/
The schedule of the particular field of engineering I was in was impossible to deal with. It involved (the field I was geared towards - CONSTANT travel, and I mean a different city every night for 4-6 months at a time. It gets old, fast. That paired with over saturation of the market led to the feeling like I was always competing for my job because there were many many fresh out of school faces willing to work for half the price. Those variable really diluted the job satisfaction.
I won't begin to harp on the rabid sexism I encountered. It is true that certain archetypes and often their counterparts are driven towards the same places and careers... The mix in engineering is often like oil and water.

Here are a few link that talk about the unemployment in nursing recently and the oversaturation of our market by people who feel as you do.......Hey! they say nursing pays good and Ican't get a job else where......I think I'll go be a nurse!

And sexism??? Have you dealt with any MD's recently???

https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/nursing-graduates-find-405831.html

https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/nearly-30-usa-567045.html

https://allnurses.com/gsearch.php?cx=partner-pub-9350112648257122%3Avaz70l-mgo9&cof=DIV%3Acacaca%3BBGC%3AF8F7F5%3BFORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&as_q=nurses+unemployed#1324

99percentcanadian · May 23, 2011

I signed up for an account just to be able to reply to this post.

I'm a nursing student, but before that I was a patient. I spent a total of two years in the hospital and had all kinds of different nurses. I had nurses who were full of compassion and who were some of the most amazing people that I've ever met, and I had nurses who were more like you describe yourself, and they were just as awesome but for different reasons.

Honestly, I consider myself to be an extremely compassionate person and I think that's an asset that will help me be a better nurse. But I think that there is something to be said for someone who is more scientific, who won't get as attached to their patients but who will provide them with the best possible care. Because ultimately, it's not whether you feel compassion for your patients that matters - it's whether you can deliver safe and effective care. It sounds like that wouldn't be a problem for you.

In my opinion, the nursing field needs all types of people and you'd be a good one.

bsyrn, ASN, RN · May 23, 2011

Helping the sick and injured is a large part of nursing...if you don't want to do that, please don't enter this field.

MTRN13 · May 23, 2011

PLEASE, PLEASE do not go into nursing. Our patients need a compassionate person to care for them. I do applaud you for coming and asking for advice. I am sorry, but I do not want a person who is not compassionate to care for me, or any of my family and friends. I have been told by families that I am an angel, and they wish more nurses were like me. I am a hand holder, shoulder to cry on, and a patient advocate. I fight tooth and nail for my patients because I care. It can be a very dramatic place due to the nature of illness, and stress in patients and thier loved ones lives.

I wish you the best of luck. Have you considered medical research or teaching sciences if you like sciences. I really hope you understand I am not trying to be mean. I think nursing you would very difficult for you. Not from a task oriented point of view, but a lot of our patients do better because of our TLC. Plus I hate to say I do not think it will make it easier for you to work with other nurses on a unit.

Also new graduate nurses are having a hard time finding jobs right now. Just because you graduate from nursing school does not mean that you will end up with a nursing job. I know someone who just graduated with a masters degree in nursing, and can't get a job since December. Just because your a nurse does not mean you will get a lot of money. I also would advise you to look at the student sections of this forum, and see the issues that nursing students go through as far as clinicals. It is not an easy path. There is a lot of blood, sweat, and tears that go into nursing school sort to speak. It is worth it when my patients say thank you or I have made someones life a little easier. I take a lot of pride in what I do, and get a lot of personal satisifaction from my job. That can mean just as much as a paycheck :twocents:

Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN · May 23, 2011

Is compassion *required* to be a nurse? No. What is required is that one make it through nursing school and pass the NCLEX.

However, the sick and injured, whom you will be interacting with every single day of your career, seem to expect it. Go figure.

Moogie · May 23, 2011

The schedule of the particular field of engineering I was in was impossible to deal with. It involved (the field I was geared towards - CONSTANT travel, and I mean a different city every night for 4-6 months at a time. It gets old, fast. That paired with over saturation of the market led to the feeling like I was always competing for my job because there were many many fresh out of school faces willing to work for half the price. Those variable really diluted the job satisfaction.

I understand why the constant travel would become tiresome. It would be very hard to have a life if you don't have much time at your home base and are always on the road. However, as another poster said, working nights, weekends, and nearly every major holiday can be a pain, too.

Many older nurses feel exactly the same way you do, always competing for their jobs. It's often difficult for older, experienced nurses to find work because new grads can be hired for less. Younger nurses often have more stamina and can work 12-hour shifts more easily.

Out of curiosity, have you ever had career counseling? I think you need a change from your most previous engineering position but I'm not sure that nursing would necessarily be a good fit. In different economic times, I think you might be able to find what you want, but with salaries and job security being uncertain, I'm concerned you're setting yourself up for further disappointment.