I am one of those middle-aged students who just applied for the Nursing Program at my local college. I was very careful to pick a college that based their selection process on merit. However, the local college I attend was forced by the Chancellor of the California Community College system to change the selection criteria for the Nursing program. Some of you know this new process as the lottery system. This happened well into the process of working on my Prereqs. Due to money considerations, it was immpossible for me to change colleges. I feared at the time that this new process would hurt me, because I have never been one of those who has benefited from chance drawings. My name was not picked during this so-called lottery. You see, under the old guidelines the top 7% went straight into the program. I made the the top 5%, however my academic achievement under the new system means nothing. I was forced to compete for a spot with all applicants who scored above 70%.
Now please understand that I am well aware that some have many responsibilities outside of school. I am no different. I have someone who I care about very much who is an epileptic. She has never been under control. I have had many nights that I have spent in the ER rather than sleeping or studying. I have paid the price many times over to be where I am now. But I am getting close to fifty. And at this point, I am very emotionally tired. I really do fear that if I do not get in by the next semester, that I will not be able to finish my dream. I am very angry and dissapointed that this has happened to me. In fact, my longtime study partner was accepted and I cannot even talk to her because it upsets me knowing that she will be moving on without me. I do wish her the best but it is just too painful. But the thing that bothers me the most is that I am being told by this new process that my academic achievement means nothing.
I have to admit, that even though I am a man I broke down and cried.
I believe there is room for all types of selection processes in our state. But this new model is nothing but socialism. It rewards the many but penalizes those who achieve the most and some of us pay the ultimate cost. Please be aware that the Chancellor is trying to force this program on every single community college in the state.
I just do not know where I am going to go from here.
So a person with a 150 IQ is equal to someone that has a IQ of 100?
What does IQ have to do with what I am talking about? Are only folks with a high IQ allowed in nursing? Don't really see where you're going with this one.
What does IQ have to do with what I am talking about? Are only folks with a high IQ allowed in nursing? Don't really see where you're going with this one.
You Know Focker,
I have stayed away from this topic for weeks now. However because of your logic expressed in the last posting I am going to make an exception. The C average students drop like flies the first semester. Why? Because they either lack the excellent study habits needed or the intellectual capacity to overcome the rigors of the nursing program. Do you doubt
what I am saying? If you do, maybe you should find out. And when you do, please ask more than just the one person you know who has been through the program.
this made front page local in the sunday edition of our local paper today.
the modesto junior college nursing school students decry planned lottery
by michelle hatfield
bee staff writer
last updated: january 21, 2007, 10:24:40 am pst
evergreen valley college's 90 percent passing rate on the national nursing exam wasn't good enough for richettia walker.
instead, she came to modesto junior college.
"i knew it had an excellent nursing program and that the pass rate is high," she said. "i thought 'the curriculum has to be good' and it actually is."
but nursing students fear such superb programs are compromised because colleges are moving to lottery systems to determine who gets admitted.
with more demand for classes than colleges have room for, some have started determining who gets in with a random drawing. using a lottery over a ranking system is meant to increase the diversity of nursing students, but some students feel that puts patient health at risk when top students are denied.
officials need a way to limit the number of applicants because colleges across the state and nation do not have enough room for everyone.
walker transferred to mjc from san jose's evergreen campus three years ago-grabbing one of 75 highly coveted spots that open up each semester.
some california colleges are turning away 80 percent of would-be nurses. the state average is 40 percent, according to californians for patient care, a nonprofit group advocating health care reform.
mjc denied 44 percent of qualified applicants last semester, and has 119 students on its waiting list.
"i worked really hard and i hate to see the gimme attitude (of entitlement)," said andriana woodward, an mjc nursing graduate. "i see students now getting in who couldn't get in years ago under the ranking program. it's rewarding mediocrity. it's not rewarding the people who worked their butts off."
woodward works in the neurocritical ward at doctors medical center.
mjc's old system ranked students based on their college grade-pointaveragefrom prerequisite classes, english classes, and core biology classes. points would be subtracted for any biology classes that needed to be repeated.
students need to meet a benchmark based on the equation to even qualify for the program.
the formula includes the most effective measures in predicting completion of nursing programs, according to a 2002 study by the center for student success.
the average grade-point average of incoming nursing students for mjc's spring semester is 3.23.
pushing for a switch
the california community college chancellor's office is pushing for a switch to the lottery, said bonnie costello, director of mjc's nursing program and a veteran nurse. officials at the state chancellor's office could not be reached for comment last week.
"the lottery is nondiscriminatory once you qualify (for the program)," costello said. "some argued that some people were getting disproportionate access without the lottery."
starting last semester, mjc uses a computer that randomly generates numbers for each student. people who have applied more than once and landed on the waiting list will have their names submitted multiple times to increase their chances, cos-tello said.
while walker said she was fortunate to get into mjc's nursing program before the lottery system, she doesn't think it's accurate to base a person's knowledge on a letter grade.
woodward said a combination of ranking and lottery systems makes the most sense for people who might be bad at taking tests.
course load is rigorous
if unqualified people get into the nursing program, the rigorous course load and internship should weed them out.
"nurses are nurturing people, but the faculty have to be hard-edged. they can't let incompe-tency pass," costello said.
instructors are top-notch and know how to tutor students, walker said. they also know when to hold someone back.
but those students who drop out take away seats from more deserving students, some argue.
"my concern is eventually they'll have to lower their standards," woodward said. "if students are not doing well in the prerequisites, they won't do well in the program."
mjc's limited classroom and lab space restricts the number of students admitted, costello said. when the new allied health facility is eventually built with part of $326 million in measure e funding, officials hope to expand the number of seats to 100 each semester.
enrollment also is limited to the number of spots available for students to complete their clinical internships at participating hospitals and doctors' offices, costello said.
space limitations hamper state and college efforts to fill nursing spots-14,000 vacancies alone for registered nurses statewide.
the empty slots translate into 35 vacancies in each california hospital, according to californians for patient care.
schools trying to fill shortage
mjc's nursing program is among many at colleges across the state that tries to pump out qualified nurses to fill the nursing shortage. programs also are available at california state university,stanislaus,columbia college and the university of phoenix.
"most come in because they want to make a difference and nursing is a way to make a difference," costello said.
meanwhile, walker continues her learn-by-doing experience. she works a 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. shift as a nursing student at memorial medical center once a week.
she wants to work in critical care, a speciality that keeps her busy and constantly in motion. the position also sees patients who need lots of care.
when reflecting on why she loves nursing, walker recalled the family of a patient who thanked her for her care and bedside manner.
"that made me feel real good, made me feel i'm in the right field," walker said. "everyday i feel like i'm there for a reason." bee staff writer michelle hatfield can be reached at 578-2339 or [email protected].
program made front page local news in the sunday edition of the modesto bee. here is the article.
What does IQ have to do with what I am talking about? Are only folks with a high IQ allowed in nursing? Don't really see where you're going with this one.
What I'm saying is some people are more qauilified than others, IQ can be one of way people can meet the qaulifications they need to get into the program. Not everyone is equal, so some deserve to get in and others excluded based on these qaulifications. A smarter person makes for a better nurse rather than a dumber one.
A smarter person makes for a better nurse rather than a dumber one.
That is sooooooooooo not true....some person might not be book smart, but they might be better at hands on....and someone might be book smart, but their hands on, they don't seem to get....My book smart is about average, I'm definately not the cream of the pot...but when it came to hands on, I'm at the top....If schools in my area used the lottery system I'd be thrilled...but I can certainly see how someone who works hard in school and gets excellent grades could be frustrated and with good reason...Just because someone isn't book smart DOES NOT MAKE THEM DUMB....
...and another thing...top students apparently drop out of nursing school for whatever reason....so just because you're a top student doesn't mean you're set up for success in nursing school.....Just because you're a not so good students when it comes to book work doesn't mean you're set up for failure in nursing school....
I have stayed away from this topic for weeks now. However because of your logic expressed in the last posting I am going to make an exception. The C average students drop like flies the first semester. Why? Because they either lack the excellent study habits needed or the intellectual capacity to overcome the rigors of the nursing program.
Tim,
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on who is right or wrong, I truly do understand where you are coming from. I just don't understand how you can sit there and say that students with a C average lack excellent study habits or the intellectual capacity to overcome the rigors of NS. Are you freaking kidding me???
So because a single mom of 3 kids that has trouble finding daycare (like I see on this board at least once a week) has a hard time during pre-reqs she shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to advance? I think you have your priorities a bit backwards, how does it not make you feel good inside to know that folks that may not have the traditional chance of "All A's and your in" are able to succeed? Maybe it's just my naivete, but I enjoy reading people's stories of overcoming their hardships to make it in NS.
And another thing, I know for a fact you wouldn't have posted a thing about the lottery system if you had gotten in the first time. So don't try and act like a martyr about how its so unfair for everyone else when deep down you only care about yourself.
What I'm saying is some people are more qauilified than others, IQ can be one of way people can meet the qaulifications they need to get into the program. Not everyone is equal, so some deserve to get in and others excluded based on these qaulifications. A smarter person makes for a better nurse rather than a dumber one.
So what you're saying is that people with low IQ's shouldn't be allowed in NS? You are right, not everyone is equal, but it is that inequality that makes this field so remarkable. Why are you trying to make this a job where everyone is the same, when no other job has the same requirements? Where does it go after the IQ requirement? Perhaps no foreign nurses in U.S hospitals. Or maybe to work in L&D you must have had a child. Perhaps only women should be allowed to be nurses.
My point is why try to base a requirement on something you can't really change. Sure you can go to school and gain some knowledge, but you're highly unlikely to change your IQ by the time you're in college. It all comes down to passing and not passing, and how you got to that point is just details.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on who is right or wrong, I truly do understand where you are coming from. I just don't understand how you can sit there and say that students with a C average lack excellent study habits or the intellectual capacity to overcome the rigors of NS. Are you freaking kidding me???
So because a single mom of 3 kids that has trouble finding daycare (like I see on this board at least once a week) has a hard time during pre-reqs she shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to advance? I think you have your priorities a bit backwards, how does it not make you feel good inside to know that folks that may not have the traditional chance of "All A's and your in" are able to succeed? Maybe it's just my naivete, but I enjoy reading people's stories of overcoming their hardships to make it in NS.
And another thing, I know for a fact you wouldn't have posted a thing about the lottery system if you had gotten in the first time. So don't try and act like a martyr about how its so unfair for everyone else when deep down you only care about yourself.
No you do not know that for a fact. There is a very large list of top level students just waiting to get in. And some of them are very close friends. Did you happen to miss the posting of the Bee article? This issue is not going away. You mention overcoming hardships, well there Focker, it is very easy to overcome when the muckered down standards require you to only jump two inches. As for your your personal insult in the last
paragraph, I will contribute that to your youth and your tendacy towards rashness. You have much to learn young one.
Tim's situation is precisely why the powers in California should never have gone against the Excelsior program. There is absolutely no excuse for keeping people like this out of nursing when Excelsior was another avenue, in addition to keeping a system that was fair at the local college. It is fair to accept the top 5% and lottery a certain number of seats.
...Just because you're a not so good students when it comes to book work doesn't mean you're set up for failure in nursing school....
14 students didn't progress into the 2nd semester of my ADN school. 3 dropped midway (reason unknown to me), 11 failed the course because their grades were less than the required 75.5%
What this says to me is that my class has 3 more semesters to go and there are 14 empty spots which translates into 14 fewer RN's graduating in my class May 2008.
FockerInTraining
13 Posts
What does IQ have to do with what I am talking about? Are only folks with a high IQ allowed in nursing? Don't really see where you're going with this one.