I am one of those middle-aged students who just applied for the Nursing Program at my local college. I was very careful to pick a college that based their selection process on merit. However, the local college I attend was forced by the Chancellor of the California Community College system to change the selection criteria for the Nursing program. Some of you know this new process as the lottery system. This happened well into the process of working on my Prereqs. Due to money considerations, it was immpossible for me to change colleges. I feared at the time that this new process would hurt me, because I have never been one of those who has benefited from chance drawings. My name was not picked during this so-called lottery. You see, under the old guidelines the top 7% went straight into the program. I made the the top 5%, however my academic achievement under the new system means nothing. I was forced to compete for a spot with all applicants who scored above 70%.
Now please understand that I am well aware that some have many responsibilities outside of school. I am no different. I have someone who I care about very much who is an epileptic. She has never been under control. I have had many nights that I have spent in the ER rather than sleeping or studying. I have paid the price many times over to be where I am now. But I am getting close to fifty. And at this point, I am very emotionally tired. I really do fear that if I do not get in by the next semester, that I will not be able to finish my dream. I am very angry and dissapointed that this has happened to me. In fact, my longtime study partner was accepted and I cannot even talk to her because it upsets me knowing that she will be moving on without me. I do wish her the best but it is just too painful. But the thing that bothers me the most is that I am being told by this new process that my academic achievement means nothing.
I have to admit, that even though I am a man I broke down and cried.
I believe there is room for all types of selection processes in our state. But this new model is nothing but socialism. It rewards the many but penalizes those who achieve the most and some of us pay the ultimate cost. Please be aware that the Chancellor is trying to force this program on every single community college in the state.
I just do not know where I am going to go from here.
TIM HAVE YOU TRIED ? WWW.IUON.ORG WELL YOU DO 3 SEMESTERS IN THE CARRIBEAN. THEN YOU BRIDGE OVER TO THE U.S W AN ACCREDITED NURSING SCHOOL, BY THE NLN. NEXT SESSION STARTS IN MAY. SO BY THE TIME YOU'RE DONE, YOU'LL BE TAKING YOUR NCLEX-RN NEXT YEAR .THERE'S NO WAITING LIST. I GOT IN. IF YOU WANTED TO WORK IN CALIFORNIA EITHER ENDORSE THE NCLEX RN OR APPLY TO SIT IN FOR NCLEX HERE IN SAC. BY THE WAY I HAVE A 3.5 GPA AND A BACHELORS AND DID WELL IN ALL MY PRE REQS. I APPLIED TO 4 SCHOOLS AND STILL DIDN'T GET IT. I COULD THINK OF A MILLION REASONS, BUT I'M TOO TIRED AND BURNED OUT TO ARGUE WITH THE GOVERNOR OR THE PRESIDENT. POLITICS , POLITICS...GOOD LUCK MARK
So because a single mom of 3 kids that has trouble finding daycare (like I see on this board at least once a week) has a hard time during pre-reqs she shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to advance? I think you have your priorities a bit backwards, how does it not make you feel good inside to know that folks that may not have the traditional chance of "All A's and your in" are able to succeed? Maybe it's just my naivete, but I enjoy reading people's stories of overcoming their hardships to make it in NS.
While I definitely see your point here, I think you're forgetting the fact that there are a lot of people with kids, work, etc. who also make good grades yet, they're pushed back to the end of the line because of the lottery system.
The reality is: grades are, in fact, a pretty good predictor of NS success. While some C students certainly have the ability to step up a make it, others don't. It's not unusual for people to drop a letter grade once they get to NS. So, if you're a C student to begin with, there's no question that the risk of failing is higher.
Most of the students who failed in my program were C students to begin with. And, to be honest with you, a lot of them did not take it seriously and apply themselves until it was too late in the semester. That, more than any other factor (work, kids, etc.) was the reason they failed, IMO.
You're also missing another key point: while some of the students who failed did have work, kids, etc. not all of them did. Some of them were younger students who didn't have any kids and were living at home with virtually no bills at all. Others had kids but were on welfare, financial aide, etc. and had boyfriends with good paying jobs so ... they didn't have to work at all.
Meanwhile, there were just as many people with kids who had to work and had even more burdens yet, they still manged to make good grades. If a working mother is busting her tail and still manages to make good grades but, she loses a slot to another student who's just scraping by and flunks out (and believe me, this does happen) ... that's definitely not fair either.
BTW: it costs the state approximately $30K to educate the average CC nursing student. So ... it's not just a fairness issue but, also, a taxpayer issue. A lot of taxpayer dollars are wasted with the lottery system.
This is why the hospitals, which are paying that $30K per student to enroll more people in my CC program, are using grades as part of their criteria. They don't want to lose money on their investment and, grades are the best way to ensure that their money isn't wasted.
It's ironic but ... while grades aren't part of the official CC criteria, that's exactly what the hospitals are doing to get extra students into the same program.
That is sooooooooooo not true....some person might not be book smart, but they might be better at hands on....and someone might be book smart, but their hands on, they don't seem to get....My book smart is about average, I'm definately not the cream of the pot...but when it came to hands on, I'm at the top....If schools in my area used the lottery system I'd be thrilled...but I can certainly see how someone who works hard in school and gets excellent grades could be frustrated and with good reason...Just because someone isn't book smart DOES NOT MAKE THEM DUMB....
So someone with a 70 IQ can do the same level or work as a nurse as someone with a 150 IQ?
So what you're saying is that people with low IQ's shouldn't be allowed in NS? You are right, not everyone is equal, but it is that inequality that makes this field so remarkable. Why are you trying to make this a job where everyone is the same, when no other job has the same requirements? Where does it go after the IQ requirement? Perhaps no foreign nurses in U.S hospitals. Or maybe to work in L&D you must have had a child. Perhaps only women should be allowed to be nurses.
Originaly nursing was a male only profession.
My point is why try to base a requirement on something you can't really change. Sure you can go to school and gain some knowledge, but you're highly unlikely to change your IQ by the time you're in college. It all comes down to passing and not passing, and how you got to that point is just details.
Yes but there are too few spots, there has to be criteria to exclude people.
That is sooooooooooo not true....some person might not be book smart, but they might be better at hands on....and someone might be book smart, but their hands on, they don't seem to get....My book smart is about average, I'm definately not the cream of the pot...but when it came to hands on, I'm at the top....If schools in my area used the lottery system I'd be thrilled...but I can certainly see how someone who works hard in school and gets excellent grades could be frustrated and with good reason...Just because someone isn't book smart DOES NOT MAKE THEM DUMB....
Or somebody may be better hands on, but still kill a patient because they weren't booksmart.
Case in point: a nurse failed to realize that the doc had ordered a lethal overdose of lidocaine during a code and, since she apparently forget that info which, btw, was emphasized pretty heavily in our program ... she gave it ... and the patient died.
There's some pretty important stuff in those books. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to be great at "hands on" if you don't know this stuff ... especially in a situation like this.
Or somebody may be better hands on, but still kill a patient because they weren't booksmart.
Case in point: a nurse failed to realize that the doc had ordered a lethal overdose of lidocaine during a code and, since she apparently forget that info which, btw, was emphasized pretty heavily in our program ... she gave it ... and the patient died.
There's some pretty important stuff in those books. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to be great at "hands on" if you don't know this stuff ... especially in a situation like this.
:typing
This is exactly what I have been saying.
I have seen quite a few people barley pass A&P and other pass with a A, hands down I feel safer with the person that got the A. They know there stuff backwards and forwards and inside out and have the critical thinking a nurse needs, I can not say that about the C people.
I have seen quite a few people barley pass A&P and other pass with a A, hands down I feel safer with the person that got the A. They know there stuff backwards and forwards and inside out and have the critical thinking a nurse needs, I can not say that about the C people.
Yeah ... when we were quizzed on the cardiac drug dosages our instructor told us that lidocaine story, which had happened at one of the local hospitals, and he said we better know those dosages backwards and forwards.
But, when it came down to it ... one girl didn't know the dosages and stated .... "I'm just not very good with numbers."
We were stunned ... and, even worse, the instructor let her slide on it. This is a student who had already failed one semester and had to repeat. But, of course, she's a young, cute girl who wears short shirts and loves to flirt with gullible male instructors ... all too typical.
We did complain about it to the head of the nursing program but, it didn't make an difference since the instructor has tenure. We'll see if she passes her boards.
When you think about the people who study very hard who have to wait in line while airheads who barely scrape by are wasting seats in the program ...
So someone with a 70 IQ can do the same level or work as a nurse as someone with a 150 IQ?
What does IQ have to do with nursing school? Is that a new thing that they're requiring? Just because someone gets good grades doesn't mean that they're going to have a high IQ than someone who doesn't. You're just assuming that....
I've met some incompetent nurses in the health care field...and THEY WERE TOP STUDENTS in nursing school....Every situation is different and I don't think that all C students are set up to failing while all A students are set up for success....I'm sorry you didn't get in nursing school....and you obviously worked hard for your grades...but don't blame it on the C students who got in through the lottery system....blame it on the college or the California government....whoever regulates this...
I've met some incompetent nurses in the health care field...and THEY WERE TOP STUDENTS in nursing school....Every situation is different and I don't think that all C students are set up to failing while all A students are set up for success....
Well ... it depends on how you define success. If we're talking about who's actually going to make it through nursing school then, there's little question that the A student has better odds of making it than the C student.
I personally have never seen an A student flunk out of the program but, there's been plenty of C students who didn't make it ... mostly because just about everybody drops a letter grade at one point or another when they get into the tougher NS curriculum.
Everybody's got some story about an A student who sucked at clinical but, I seriously doubt that all of them do ... and, with the exception of maybe one person, that certainly wasn't the case in my class.
At the end of the day, all that really matters is who is going to make it through the program. Even if a C student has the potential to make a great nurse, that ultimately isn't going to mean anything if they can't make it through the program.
The question here is: if you've got a ton of people waiting to get in, do you waste time, money and resources on people who have a lesser chance of making it? Or, do you give the people who have proven themselves a better chance at those slots?
From a purely practical standpoint ... you go with the grades because that's ultimately what it takes to get through NS. And the hospitals, which do the hiring, know this.
This is why GPA is big part of the hospitals' criteria when they pay for people to get into my CC program.
What does IQ have to do with nursing school? Is that a new thing that they're requiring? Just because someone gets good grades doesn't mean that they're going to have a high IQ than someone who doesn't. You're just assuming that....
Only a few people passed my A&P class with a A. There where 3 actually and all had 130+ IQ.
I've met some incompetent nurses in the health care field...and THEY WERE TOP STUDENTS in nursing school....Every situation is different and I don't think that all C students are set up to failing while all A students are set up for success....I'm sorry you didn't get in nursing school....and you obviously worked hard for your grades...but don't blame it on the C students who got in through the lottery system....blame it on the college or the California government....whoever regulates this...
I got into Sacramneto State University Nursing, so I'm puzzled at what your talking about.
All the people that got A's in Chem, A&P, Micro got in as well. I'll let you know if the come out of Nursing with Honors, I suspect they will, there the cream of the crop and the cream always rises to the Top.
Only a few people passed my A&P class with a A. There where 3 actually and all had 130+ IQ.
I got into Sacramneto State University Nursing, so I'm puzzled at what your talking about.
All the people that got A's in Chem, A&P, Micro got in as well. I'll let you know if the come out of Nursing with Honors, I suspect they will, there the cream of the crop and the cream always rises to the Top.
Well ... this is over the top ..... (pun intended) .
Look: I graduated NS second in my class but, I don't think A students are better than everybody else either, which is what you seem to be implying here. Yes, the book knowledge does matter, a lot ... particularly in getting through nursing school.
But, just as people go to one extreme and say booksmarts doesn't matter much ... you can't say that it's the only thing that matters either.
I don't know how far you've gone in school or, how much clinical experience you have but, at least from my experience, it can also be somewhat of a challenge applying that book knowledge in the clinical setting.
For one thing, the books don't always agree on how to do things. The facility, the RN's, MD's, etc. may have a different way of doing things apart from that and, many times, you only learn things from experience, not the books.
That is, afterall, why they also put us through clinicals so ... I wouldn't jump on some high horse about A students being the cream of the crop because, quite frankly, arrogance in this business is just as dangerous as ignorance.
Well ... this is over the top ..... (pun intended) .
Look: I graduated NS second in my class but, I don't think A students are better than everybody else either, which is what you seem to be implying here. Yes, the book knowledge does matter, a lot ... particularly in getting through nursing school.
But, just as people go to one extreme and say booksmarts doesn't matter much ... you can't say that it's the only thing that matters either.
I don't know how far you've gone in school or, how much clinical experience you have but, at least from my experience, it can also be somewhat of a challenge applying that book knowledge in the clinical setting.
For one thing, the books don't always agree on how to do things. The facility, the RN's, MD's, etc. may have a different way of doing things apart from that and, many times, you only learn things from experience, not the books.
That is, afterall, why they also put us through clinicals so ... I wouldn't jump on some high horse about A students being the cream of the crop because, quite frankly, arrogance in this business is just as dangerous as ignorance.
:typing
I understand what you are saying. What I was trying to imply is that all the A students I know are well rounded people and their critical thinking is top notch. This ability they have trancends pure book knowledge. They are able to adapt and infer what the correct answer will be, even if its not in a book or tought in lecture.
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macmac
8 Posts
TIM HAVE YOU TRIED ? WWW.IUON.ORG WELL YOU DO 3 SEMESTERS IN THE CARRIBEAN. THEN YOU BRIDGE OVER TO THE U.S W AN ACCREDITED NURSING SCHOOL, BY THE NLN. NEXT SESSION STARTS IN MAY. SO BY THE TIME YOU'RE DONE, YOU'LL BE TAKING YOUR NCLEX-RN NEXT YEAR .THERE'S NO WAITING LIST. I GOT IN. IF YOU WANTED TO WORK IN CALIFORNIA EITHER ENDORSE THE NCLEX RN OR APPLY TO SIT IN FOR NCLEX HERE IN SAC. BY THE WAY I HAVE A 3.5 GPA AND A BACHELORS AND DID WELL IN ALL MY PRE REQS. I APPLIED TO 4 SCHOOLS AND STILL DIDN'T GET IT. I COULD THINK OF A MILLION REASONS, BUT I'M TOO TIRED AND BURNED OUT TO ARGUE WITH THE GOVERNOR OR THE PRESIDENT. POLITICS , POLITICS...GOOD LUCK MARK