How would you, as an LPN, feel about a CNA being YOUR supervisor? I've been a nurse for almost 20 years, and this really ticks me off. Is this even legal? I recently started a new job, at a new facility, and the staffing coordinator has the title of Nursing Coordinator. The chain of command....her then the D.O.N. I have no problem with an LPN being my supervisor, I was a nursing supervisor for a few years, but a CNA? PLEASE!!!!!! She and the D.O.N are good friends, but still she should not have the title as Nursing Coordinator AND be the direct "supervisor" of LPN's, or can she? I just don't agree with this, and it has me totally upset, ticked. That would be the samething as me supervising RN's, atleast I would think so. She is a CNA, never has been to nursing school, so how can she tell US what to do, or how to do it? Something is totally wrong with this picture. Thing is, she even acts like she's an LPN. Honestly, I thought she was until the other day when I found out different. Just wanted to know what someone else's oppinion is on this. Thanks.
I do find it difficult to understand the command structures in US healthcare because I don't really understand the different qualifications of nurses, and it maybe my intepretation of what a CNA is I would still have a problem with this.
From what you describe Stanley I would say that you are no longer acting as a CNA but have progressed into managment. I have a senior manager who is not a nurse, who deals with HR and discipline issues and I have no problem with that, if there are any clinical issues then they are referred to me.
If this is the case then I have no problem with this because you are not a CNA you are management and from what you describe well qualified to deal with non clinical issues.
I would say that a medication error is a clinical issue, but that is how we deal with it and usually if there are repeated errors it requires educationa and retraining. I would be really cross if my non nurse manager tried to deal with medication errors as this is something that is my domain.
Also, I would love to have someone outside of my nursing staff to deal with rota issues and finding replacements for nurses who phone in sick. Actually it is something that I am going to look into because the nurses I work with have far better things that they should be dealing with.
I would not tolerate a work situation such as you describe. It'd be too difficult to try to maintain my license while being challenged at every turn by a CNA (who is also possibly on quite the little power trip) who is only too eager to be the glorified gofer for management.
They have no license to lose, they're flattered to be in a managerial job that essentially requires no college degree (which in itself should be suspicious), and they're being well-paid to do exactly what management says and when.
Aside: all of the administrators I've worked with did have to have a college degree and training in order to qualify to do their jobs.
I would not tolerate a work situation such as you describe. It'd be too difficult to try to maintain my license while being challenged at every turn by an ignorant, unqualified CNA (who is also possibly on quite the little power trip) who is only too eager to be the glorified gofer for management.[\quote]
Wow. Power trip. Who said I challenge everyone? Sounds like I am not the one on the power trip.
No, but I have all my time and money spent on my RN school to lose.
The smartest and richest men in history have had no college education. Having a college education means absolutely nothing. You belief that your having a college education makes you better than me is inappropriate an unfounded.
I'd take my experience over any Ba/BS educated person. That education means nothing which is why after graduation they go to entry level jobs. Experience is always greater than education.
I'd think you would not be one to insult people seeing as how you are the better person with the college education... and seeing how it is agaisnt the TOS.
Ignorant and powertripping... As if...
That would be the samething as me supervising RN's, atleast I would think so. She is a CNA, never has been to nursing school, so how can she tell US what to do, or how to do it? Something is totally wrong with this picture. Thing is, she even acts like she's an LPN. Honestly, I thought she was until the other day when I found out different. Just wanted to know what someone else's oppinion is on this. Thanks.
OK, first, I took a second look at that post and realized how it'd come off, so I edited it. If I offended you, I apologise. But frankly, this thread is not about you, Stan. The OP is quoted beneath your last post and her post formed the basis of my response. That's where the "powertripping" comment came from.
Second, you admit that you are in nursing school. There's a saying that goes, "You don't know what you don't know." As far as nursing goes, you can believe it. I really don't know how to tell you what you will learn as a nurse, but I honestly believe that you will not really understand until you are a nurse. That was where the "ignorant" comment came from, but I thought better of it, because to a lot of people "ignorant" (meaning uneducated) means the same thing as "stupid" (not the same at all), so I changed it.
The OP doesn't mention that her CNA supervisor is even thinking of going to nursing school, but that she acts like an LPN and seems to be dangling her sword of power over everyone's heads.
The question is: should that power be conferred on just anyone or does it have to be taught, learned, and earned?
Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.
Anyone can be your administrative supervisor as an employee of the place where you work. This comes up in hospitals where non-nurses are made managers over nursing units all the time. However, only an RN can supervise your LPN license related work.
So, this person who is a supervisor can perform with regard to the facility rules of employment (hiring, attendance, scheduling, discipline of facility rules), but can't tell you how to give medications or do treatments where it involves your licensure. She can correct you for the way you behave toward a visitor or patient though if it concerns the administrative viewpoint.
I can understand and relate where you are coming from, but I will say it is not always a title, nor experience, that makes someone qualified for the job. I work in a LTC facility, so I am use to being charge nurse. However, Assn. DON is only given to an RN, and any supervisor role is only given to RN's. (This does not bother me because I've only been a nurse for 9 months). There is a CNA at our facility who has been an employee there for 25 years! She is the hardest working, best CNA I have ever encountered. She is our facility transport person..........then works 3-11 as an aide. She told me once that she thought about getting a certification as Med-tech (in NC, med-tech's can pass meds as a CNA II), but she did not want another "added-on" responsibility to her already too-long list w/o the added pay. My point is, I know I dont have a CNA 'over me'.......but many RN's......particularly administrative RN's who have to take call days like we do, but when it comes to actually working the floor, will whine they havent worked a floor in over 20 years and it takes two of them to get through a shift. Meanwhile, the LPN's are being way over worked, and I would trust the CNA I was just talking about........she has helped me with NUMEROUS tasks...........(I was never a CNA before becoming a nurse). The bedside caregiver is the most important to me.........even though I do see where you are coming from, try to pull from her experience what you can. If it's just a case of someone not qualified for the job, try talking to the administrator.
Good Luck! (Wondering why Im so talkative tonight )\
I appreciate your candor and willingness to explain. I was a CNA for many years, I was a manager, however, I supervised other aides. I had a hard enough time with that drama!
I can't imagine handling the nurses admin issues as well.
It's not that I don't believe a CNA is not capable of managing, I certainly was!
I guess my better judgement has the best of me, because of the situation I have at my work.
Again, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
At our facility recently, we were told that CNA II's could change colostomy bags, do treatments, etc........sometimes that is threatening because it seems we go to school longer and now CNA's can do a lot of what we are doing.............but remember, even as a nurse, we also answer call lights, change diapers, get urine samples, clean up vomit, run and get extra food-tray items, take people to the dining room, get supplies, etc. We are all a team..........its not WHAT we do, but how the patient thrives that:wink2: matters
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XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN
1 Article; 3,020 Posts
I do find it difficult to understand the command structures in US healthcare because I don't really understand the different qualifications of nurses, and it maybe my intepretation of what a CNA is I would still have a problem with this.
From what you describe Stanley I would say that you are no longer acting as a CNA but have progressed into managment. I have a senior manager who is not a nurse, who deals with HR and discipline issues and I have no problem with that, if there are any clinical issues then they are referred to me.
If this is the case then I have no problem with this because you are not a CNA you are management and from what you describe well qualified to deal with non clinical issues.
I would say that a medication error is a clinical issue, but that is how we deal with it and usually if there are repeated errors it requires educationa and retraining. I would be really cross if my non nurse manager tried to deal with medication errors as this is something that is my domain.
Also, I would love to have someone outside of my nursing staff to deal with rota issues and finding replacements for nurses who phone in sick. Actually it is something that I am going to look into because the nurses I work with have far better things that they should be dealing with.