child care problems

SnowymtnRN · Feb 11, 2004

The paid holidays i would have a problem with to be honest. The other stuff is pretty standard. Most "licensed" care providers are licensed for a number of spots, so to secure your spot and ensure they have room for your child they need some guarantee. However, she's awfully "technical" for that type of contract. What does your gut feeling say? Go with that. But no, i wouldn't pay for holidays, especially if they aren't there.

FTR, just because we "expect" holiday pay doesn't mean we get it either.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 11, 2004

This practices is standard in most daycares, frankly. I never liked it much but I understood and abided by it when I had to use it..

thank goodness those days are over.

You likely will find this true all over, unless you do drop-in care. You will likely have to suck it up and pay whether the child is there or not.

they are holding a space for you, after all.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 11, 2004

Many other workers/ professionals get paid holidays, so daycare providers feel entitled. Are they? I think so if their holiday falls on a weekday and a flat weekly/monthly fee is paid. And in the case of home daycare providers, Daycares vary; some do it, others don't. If you don't like it, you may want to move on and try to find someone who does not do paid holidays. A GOOD DAYCARE PROVIDER is worth his/her weight in GOLD, believe me! Best wishes.

Godswill · Feb 11, 2004

I have to say it standard to and they are entitle to it, i mean u get paid for holiday and vacation even if u are off, what the difference its still a business. I know most don't make u pay for vacation,but i do think holidays should be paid for :)

kimtab · Feb 11, 2004

I don't think it's unreasonable. These are the same policies that are in place at any daycare center. You pay a set amount each week regardless of whether your child is sick a day, or a holiday when the center isn't open falls during the work week. Is it irksome? Sometimes. I've certainly had weeks when my son was sick all week and didn't attend but I had to pay anyway. They staff on enrollment, so they have to have be paid based on enrollment, not on attendance.

Of course, this is part of the reason some people don't choose daycare centers, because policies like this make the care more expensive. But IMHO if you want your daycare provider to be a valuable employee - you need to treat her like one. Shes tsaking her business seriously. You expect her to be there when she says shes going to be there and she expects the same from you. I have never heard of signing a contract but I assume that part is just so she has verification that you understand the policies? I wouldn't actually sign anything obligating me to care for a set period of time because she may not work out, you want the right to fire her if you need to.

Kim

alexillytom · Feb 11, 2004

OP, I felt the same way you did so I became a licensed home childcare

provider. No, I didn't just stick a shingle out

front of my door, and open for business. I went through certification classes, had

a safety inspection, and continued education for the time I provided care.

I worked on a pay for the days you are there basis. I only did it because I didn't feel

comfortable making people pay for time their child wasn't there. I was WRONG!!!!

That was no way to run a business, let alone contribute to my household. There was

never any definite income so we couldn't even include my earnings in a budget. Also,

tax time is a B***ch!!! Trying to keep a log of $20 one week, $100 the next, and $40

the following is the pits. Because the money was so flaky, I had to take on a part-time

job so I could have some definite income. Imagine, full-time daycare provider, part-time

customer service clerk, and 9 credits each semester. I was useless to my family

I loved my kids and their parents were very good to me.

I would never do it again nor encourage anyone else to do business that way. Childcare

providers are entitled to make a living too.

ejm99 · Feb 13, 2004

I've done in home daycare...and it ISN'T easy. This is REALLY REALLY long so forgive me...or if your not bored skip over it...lol

Sure there's a woman in every neighborhood that has 18 kids running around her house and charges like $65-$85 a week. But you never quite feel COMFORTABLE w/ the level of "care"...if you could even call it that..it's more of a legal adult responsible for dialing 911 if necessary while the kids run around like little nutballs.

But for a RESPONSIBLE ,dependable provider who not only WATCHES the children but also provides a safe environment w/ a variety of learning activities (not necessarily mary poppins like hands on but toys that they can LEARN from) and nutritious meals and snacks and TRULY enjoys children.... expecting paid holidays and vacation is not a huge thing to ask. ESPECIALLY if her fees are reasonable compared w/ COMPRABLE care in a licensed daycare or licensed home.

I can tell you as a former provider myself that it's not the kids that drive you bonkers it's their PARENTS. It's the No shows for 4 wks straight then they show up on your doorstep, kid in tow like nothing happened and then ARGUE w/ you that it's your JOB to watch their little billy while they work and that it wasn't THEIR fault that they had a) a death in the family b) a grandparent unexpectedly show up and offer to watch the child c) lost your phone number (????) D) got fired

therefore you in ALL the above situations did not DESERVE a phone call out of courtesy to let you know they would not be in attendence for that week(S).

It's the parents that although you've gone the no contract route and told them CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY that your hours are 7am- 6pm yet they gradually move up the drop off time to 6:15 and pickup back to 6:45.

Finally when you explain you CANNOT accept their child before the designated "open" time or keep their child LATER than teh "close" time due to your own family obligations they ignore you. "Late fees" and "early drop off" fees apply for this reason. Parents WILL take advantage of a sitter if your TOO nice, don't insist on a contract and don't have your policies clearly spelled out. Not to mention they will SUE you over just about ANYTHING that ISN"T in that contract. (I havn't ever been sued but a friend was).

Boy could I tell you some stories....

but my feeling is that CONTRACTS are to protect BOTH the caregiver and the parents from any misunderstandings.

I USED to not use a contract .....then I got burned not once but twice and I now will not so much as watch my own nephew without one. It's just easier and more professional in my opinion.

and boy could I tell you stories about some nutball parents.

as for the paid holidays and vacation I do understand ....BOTH sides ...

but it is a CHOICE. You have the option of NOT leaving your kids there...not being rude..just pointing out a fact, asking her NOT to have a contract or for her to bend her policies to meet your needs isn't really fair especailly when your not adding anything to the table. This isn't a negotiation. You can't go and say well I want THAT steak for THIS amount of money...nor can you obtain child care that way... Had you said... "would you consider revising the contract and negate the vacation week til after the first year of care is completed" that would be different. My point is that she doesn't have any REASON to negotiate...this is her livlihood too...and she is making her own benefits as she sees the need....nothing wrong w/ that as long as it's in writing.

and I think it's GREAT that she takes the state aid for daycare...as from what I hear it's isn't as much as what she COULD make charging reg. fees...not to mention that's a couple more people in the work force, trying to work their way UP instead of staying continually on state aid forever.

I was very lucky that my oldest got to go to Headstart. It was free and helped get me personally off welfare and into a job that I was able to support us with. Had I not had that program no doubt I would have been on welfare for a MUCH longer time.

Hope you aren't upset w/ me...but I do understand....I would have to REALLY love a provider before I was willing to guarantee vacation pay etc..and perhaps you could negotiate things like a probatino period etc....before the contract goes in effect.... nothing worse than prepaying for daycare for the week and realizing on day one that your child wasn't changed all day or was given nothing but chips for lunch.....and if you signed a contract you'd be stuck...regardless to the action of the provider.

so ALWAYS have a clause.... (I've added to everyone one that I've signed that care must be appropriate and any acts of abuse or neglect on the providers part nullify's the contract. ~every provider I chose to hire signed too.) that protects YOU and your child from possible neglect.

:)

GL!

marshalbc77 · Feb 14, 2004

Here's an Update:

My husband talked to her again last night but she wasn't willing to negotiate. We poored our hearts out of how much we appreciate her and how much my kids like her. We accepted the terms that okay we will pay for the 3 days even if I get cancelled. But the holiday/vacation pay she still sticking by it. I did not mention this part on my original post but what my husband and I recall we numerously asked her about the holiday/vacation pay in the beginning and what she stated then was "some parts of the contract will not apply to you". So my husband reminded her of what she said but she didn't really acknowledge the statement. So in the end we didn't come to terms. I guess there's a reason for everything. I wish we could go back to our old sitter.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Feb 14, 2004

http://mychildfun.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4
is an interesting forum I ran across a while back where child care providers meet to chat, vent (much like us here! :)) A little bit of reading there gave me a lot of insight into some of the nuances of their issues/pet peeves, etc. I gathered there that this is a fairly common practice. As someone who used to work in *adult* day care, I remember well the problems associated with last minute cancellations for whatever reason (we had staffing ratios, meal counts, etc. that we had to plan on.) It was nice to know you could count on a certain number of clients attending. I also appreciate your predicament tho. Shop around like others said.

Ratched, I don't have kids, but I took a peak at the day care provider board, and it was surprising. Day care providers become attached to the kids, consider themselves part of the kids lives, and when a parent changes to another service, they go through a grief process. I saw several posts in this vein. Very interesting. BTW- I used to work "adult" day care, too. Loved it.

ejm99 · Feb 14, 2004

Here's an Update:
My husband talked to her again last night but she wasn't willing to negotiate. We poored our hearts out of how much we appreciate her and how much my kids like her. We accepted the terms that okay we will pay for the 3 days even if I get cancelled. But the holiday/vacation pay she still sticking by it. I did not mention this part on my original post but what my husband and I recall we numerously asked her about the holiday/vacation pay in the beginning and what she stated then was "some parts of the contract will not apply to us". So my husband reminded her of what she said but she didn't really acknowledge the statement. So in the end we didn't come to terms. I guess there's a reason for everything. I wish we could go back to our old sitter.

Warning bells are going off w/ the whole "some parts of the contract will not apply to you" statement. If they don't apply they shouldn't be there...or at the very least crossed off and signed on by BOTH parties. Once it's signed it's a done deal.....so she can say whatever she wants and would win in small claims court too (this is what happened w/ my friend regarding a statement about the fees being nonrefundable and a 2wk notice statement).

I think you should go talk to her...when the kids aren't around and go over the contract step by step and see where she's comfortable negotiating...but again...DEFINITELY you , as a parent should add the "null in event of neglect " clause.

The last thing you want to ever have to do is a pay a sitter when her neglect has caused your child an injury or WORSE....this actually happened to me and I was contractually bound to pay my sitter for that week even though my son only attended ONE day and was BEATEN while in her care....and yes had ER reports, CPS involved you name it...still a contract is a contract and you just never know. By the way I'm EXTREMELY picky about my childcare providers, I went thru 4 in a matter of 9 mos while in school because of this incident and to make matters WORSE the provider was a FRIEND of mine whom I had known quite awhile and felt 100% comfortable w/ , knew her and her family well, spent time w/ etc.... now I'm WAY paranoid...i mean if a FRIEND could do that to my child...imagine what a stranger could do.

So....contract....definitely, CLAUSE...absolutely...and negotiate....I personally think that asking for a wk of vacation isn't bad but I sure wouldn't want to start my child there in March and have her go on vacation in April...perhaps after 6mos of care? something...get creative...think of other perks you can offer instead... sounds weird but maybe your dh gets season tickets to your local football games...perhaps share? ...you love to cook...offer 4 meals a month for her family...at your expense..., so many hours of reciprocal babysitting for HER kids...etc...

I know that $$ is great...but perks can be better sometimes!

I"ve done that in the past as well....and as always put it in writing.

:)

are you getting how strongly I feel about the contract aspect???? lol...

GL.

heatherbless · Feb 14, 2004

Here's an Update:
My husband talked to her again last night but she wasn't willing to negotiate. We poored our hearts out of how much we appreciate her and how much my kids like her. We accepted the terms that okay we will pay for the 3 days even if I get cancelled. But the holiday/vacation pay she still sticking by it. I did not mention this part on my original post but what my husband and I recall we numerously asked her about the holiday/vacation pay in the beginning and what she stated then was "some parts of the contract will not apply to you". So my husband reminded her of what she said but she didn't really acknowledge the statement. So in the end we didn't come to terms. I guess there's a reason for everything. I wish we could go back to our old sitter.

It sounds like you just need to find another provider. I never understand why childcare providers...probably one of the more important roles in society....never get any respect for their jobs. Why is she not allowed to have vacation days like any other respectable profession?? If you don't like it--then change the situation and quit bellyaching about it. hty/

marshalbc77 · Feb 14, 2004

Let me clarify something heatherbless. I am not saying she's not allowed vacation days and for her to just work, work, work. My chief complaint is that I don't think its ethical/fair that a parent has to pay for her vacation days and holidays. I don't know if you read my original post but here's an example regarding holidays. Say, Thanksgiving, she's close, kids are on vacation, got lucky and got that holiday off so my husband and I are watching our kids and at the same time we are still paying her. Her one week vacation we will end up paying double, paying her and the back up provider.We are not rich like that don't know about you all. From the replies I've read some of you guys are accepting and for it. the "pay my vacation and holidays when I"m close"... It surprised me that some backed it up.

P.S. I am in no way degrading this profession that was not my intention much props for women/men who do this, cause I know I cannot.