Just had a question for you guys....how do your instructors handle cheating? At my school the instructors are sooo strict about cheating even though we really havent given them any reason to think that we would do that.
I understand sitting every other seat and such but my school goes to the extent that they watch us like hawks and make us put our cell phones and bags in the front of the room. There are only 28 of us in the entire program.
We had a whole class on cheating and were told that if we were caught cheating we would be dismissed from the program (which I dont disagree with). They run our papers through some computer program that scans the internet for plagerims too. The school I did my undergrad in was definetly not as strict...just wondering how strict other programs were about this and what precautions/ramifications the instructors take?
These ideas are getting crazier and crazier. Where do these people come up them?
Wow! Never heard of the rolling up of the sleeves, but makes sense. But I must say, Good Lord! Pretty soon we'll all be sitting butt-naked (or maybe worse, forced to wear a hospital johnny!!!:chuckle ) when we take a nursing exam!
I must admit, on my last Micro exam, I had SUCH a brain fart! I was having trouble remembering the "stationary" phase of cell growth (could not for the life of me remember the word "stationary"!) and caught my arm before it automatically reached for my notebook under my chair! My brain was still in "LOOK IT UP" mode!! Lord, would that have been embarrassing! Yeah, great cheater I'd be - just grab a book and look up the answer DURING the exam!!
I graduated in '91, and the only cheating I remember seeing was people writing on their hands or jeans, or just bringing in a cheat sheet.
I do remember seeing a movie where someone had notes on their sunglasses, but I can't remember which one it was.
I guess as WannaBEanRN said, we'll all have to wear hospital gowns and paper underwear :rotfl: issued right before the test, and have to change behind a screen. Nothing can be brought in....no pencils, no papers, & no sunglasses. :chuckle
Wow! Never heard of the rolling up of the sleeves, but makes sense. But I must say, Good Lord! Pretty soon we'll all be sitting butt-naked (or maybe worse, forced to wear a hospital johnny!!!:chuckle ) when we take a nursing exam!
I must admit, on my last Micro exam, I had SUCH a brain fart! I was having trouble remembering the "stationary" phase of cell growth (could not for the life of me remember the word "stationary"!) and caught my arm before it automatically reached for my notebook under my chair! My brain was still in "LOOK IT UP" mode!! Lord, would that have been embarrassing! Yeah, great cheater I'd be - just grab a book and look up the answer DURING the exam!!
Just had a question for you guys....how do your instructors handle cheating? At my school the instructors are sooo strict about cheating even though we really havent given them any reason to think that we would do that.
I understand sitting every other seat and such but my school goes to the extent that they watch us like hawks and make us put our cell phones and bags in the front of the room. There are only 28 of us in the entire program.
We had a whole class on cheating and were told that if we were caught cheating we would be dismissed from the program (which I dont disagree with). They run our papers through some computer program that scans the internet for plagerims too. The school I did my undergrad in was definetly not as strict...just wondering how strict other programs were about this and what precautions/ramifications the instructors take?
This seems to be fairly standard. I actually think that someone who is caught cheating should be out of the program. It's something students know is wrong, so if they can not distinguish right from wrong... Plagerism is a different story from outright cheating, I've worked with lots of students who don't understand how to actually quote or paraphrase... Outside of Nursing programs, papers have been run through that machine for a long time now to check for plagerism, sometimes you are just not told your papers are being run through...and you can get a surprise, at least they warn you.
I actually don't think these measures are too draconian... please let me tell this story:
I was in my L and D rotation which I didn't enjoy. However, I seemed to pick up on it really easily, the monitoring of quality of FHR etc was interesting etc. and I did really well on the tests.. so well at the end of the semester I had 108% (the 8 was extra credit answered correctly). The professor decided I was cheating after the first test, and told me so... I asked her why and she told me no one got these grades in her class. (Her class was difficult, challenging, etc....). I said, something about not cheating and that I studied quite a lot. So for the rest of the semester she pulled my desk to the front of the room and made me sit there while taking the tests.
That was embarrassing. But in the end, she was embarassed, I probably studied more just to not give her any satisfaction! I still get elevated BP when I think of that...
That's as bad as a Wal-mart greeter asking to check my bags! GRRRRRRR!
There are many things I would never do, and cheating and stealing are two of them. I can't stand being accused either!
This seems to be fairly standard. I actually think that someone who is caught cheating should be out of the program. It's something students know is wrong, so if they can not distinguish right from wrong... Plagerism is a different story from outright cheating, I've worked with lots of students who don't understand how to actually quote or paraphrase... Outside of Nursing programs, papers have been run through that machine for a long time now to check for plagerism, sometimes you are just not told your papers are being run through...and you can get a surprise, at least they warn you.
I actually don't think these measures are too draconian... please let me tell this story:
I was in my L and D rotation which I didn't enjoy. However, I seemed to pick up on it really easily, the monitoring of quality of FHR etc was interesting etc. and I did really well on the tests.. so well at the end of the semester I had 108% (the 8 was extra credit answered correctly). The professor decided I was cheating after the first test, and told me so... I asked her why and she told me no one got these grades in her class. (Her class was difficult, challenging, etc....). I said, something about not cheating and that I studied quite a lot. So for the rest of the semester she pulled my desk to the front of the room and made me sit there while taking the tests.
That was embarrassing. But in the end, she was embarassed, I probably studied more just to not give her any satisfaction! I still get elevated BP when I think of that...
I have had my papers scanned before...I think that's fairly standard.
In my nursing program, we must sit at least one seat apart. Can bring NOTHING besides a pencil no hats. The teachers roam the room like hawks watching us LOL. We are NOT allowed to leave the room the entire hour even if you finish 20 minutes in. We must sit there quietly. When time is called we pass in the scantrons. Then one teacher reads all the answers then we must pass in the tests. No discussions and only about 2 minutes to look over what we got wrong. We can go to our clinical instructor to go over the test one on one if we want and if we just have a question about a particular question we can email our clinical instructor or the lecture instructor who taught that content.
In my school, each test has a statement on the cover page that a student won't cheat or tolerate others cheating, etc., words to that effect. Students sign twice to ackowledge the pledge. Still, I'm sure it happens.
At the prompting by another student, I observed two roommates engaged in, at the very least, suspicious behavior. The academically gifted of the two students turned her test pages very slowly, holding the paper with answers vertically 10+ seconds, an optimal position for the roommate to scan... if so inclined.
If an item has a surface, it can be marked. It may not be in a fashion you recognize, but it can be marked, to include yellow, wooden pencils. Made sense to me.
Some students conveniently were absent on test day. Friends could brief them on questions.
I've heard students discuss how to cheat on computerized tests where each station presents testers with randomized questions. Made sense to me.
Year classes sometimes are split. Half may go into Maternal Health one semester. The other half of the class rotates to Maternal Health the following semester. Several kids may fail in the first semester. Less, up to half of the first rotation, may fail the same class the following semester. Why? Could it be that the first group took copious and accurate notes of questions and answers to pass along the following semester. Remember some of those with photographic memories? I heard of some students bragging that they possessed XXX's notebook from the previous term with most questions and answers identified. Upper classmen/women and graduates can pass notebooks along. Faculty seldomly changed tests for immediately succeeding terms tests to a significant degree "because good test questions were difficult to write."
Should I have said something about my observations or suspicions? Maybe... but there can be a huge price to pay if a person is identified as a being a snitch. Life as a nursing student is tough enough for most. It can be much more so if you're an struggling outsider/loner who needs a back-up to help survive... "Remember, we've a test this Thursday in Psych..." or several members of a group make accusations you didn't pull your weight on a group project. I saw those things happen without the person being labeled a snitch. I remember one individual mis-marked his calendar. He showed up for class only to discover it was test day. He's failed so poorly that successive scores couldn't raise his GPA to a min pass level. Never saw him after that class.
I can understand some who say that they'll do whatever it takes to pass... because faculty sometimes refuse to give credit for ambigous or poorly worded question or answers. Sometimes faculty use, for lack of a more appropriate word, the stupidest rationales to justify the answer he/she thought to be the most "correct" or the "correct" answers. If you're hanging on by the skin of one's teeth, every fraction of a point counts. Students typically invest a lot of time and money. What if your school doesn't use bell curves? Not saying it's ethically right, only that I understand one's motivation to engage in such behavior.
It POed me to no end to find the entire chain of command refusing to tell an instructor he/she was wrong about a question/answer because the university put a premium on faculty's "academic freedom." Remember, from a dean's perspective, faculty often is difficult recruit, good/respected faculty more so. Sometime they take whoever they can get to the detriment of students.
On a philosophical level, maybe none of it matters--cheating or catching cheaters. Ya gotta pass NCLEX--the end all "clearing house?" With the NCLEX question bank supposedly in the thousands, test takers have to know their stuff. Right?
We do the same thing during tests and they make us sign a paper saying we wont cheat on every test. Just last week someone from my clinical group was booted out of the program for plagerism. They made us turn in disks and I guess something came up when they ran his.
In my school, each test has a statement on the cover page that a student won't cheat or tolerate others cheating, etc., words to that effect. Students sign twice to ackowledge the pledge. Still, I'm sure it happens.
At the prompting by another student, I observed two roommates engaged in, at the very least, suspicious behavior. The academically gifted of the two students turned her test pages very slowly, holding the paper with answers vertically 10+ seconds, an optimal position for the roommate to scan... if so inclined.
If an item has a surface, it can be marked. It may not be in a fashion you recognize, but it can be marked, to include yellow, wooden pencils. Made sense to me.
Some students conveniently were absent on test day. Friends could brief them on questions.
I've heard students discuss how to cheat on computerized tests where each station presents testers with randomized questions. Made sense to me.
Year classes sometimes are split. Half may go into Maternal Health one semester. The other half of the class rotates to Maternal Health the following semester. Several kids may fail in the first semester. Less, up to half of the first rotation, may fail the same class the following semester. Why? Could it be that the first group took copious and accurate notes of questions and answers to pass along the following semester. Remember some of those with photographic memories? I heard of some students bragging that they possessed XXX's notebook from the previous term with most questions and answers identified. Upper classmen/women and graduates can pass notebooks along. Faculty seldomly changed tests for immediately succeeding terms tests to a significant degree "because good test questions were difficult to write."
Should I have said something about my observations or suspicions? Maybe... but there can be a huge price to pay if a person is identified as a being a snitch. Life as a nursing student is tough enough for most. It can be much more so if you're an struggling outsider/loner who needs a back-up to help survive... "Remember, we've a test this Thursday in Psych..." or several members of a group make accusations you didn't pull your weight on a group project. I saw those things happen without the person being labeled a snitch. I remember one individual mis-marked his calendar. He showed up for class only to discover it was test day. He's failed so poorly that successive scores couldn't raise his GPA to a min pass level. Never saw him after that class.
I can understand some who say that they'll do whatever it takes to pass... because faculty sometimes refuse to give credit for ambigous or poorly worded question or answers. Sometimes faculty use, for lack of a more appropriate word, the stupidest rationales to justify the answer he/she thought to be the most "correct" or the "correct" answers. If you're hanging on by the skin of one's teeth, every fraction of a point counts. Students typically invest a lot of time and money. What if your school doesn't use bell curves? Not saying it's ethically right, only that I understand one's motivation to engage in such behavior.
It POed me to no end to find the entire chain of command refusing to tell an instructor he/she was wrong about a question/answer because the university put a premium on faculty's "academic freedom." Remember, from a dean's perspective, faculty often is difficult recruit, good/respected faculty more so. Sometime they take whoever they can get to the detriment of students.
On a philosophical level, maybe none of it matters--cheating or catching cheaters. Ya gotta pass NCLEX--the end all "clearing house?" With the NCLEX question bank supposedly in the thousands, test takers have to know their stuff. Right?
Just my opinions and observations...
Good point!! I totally understand the last part of your post. I wouldn't cheat but I know what you mean by instructors refusing to accept ambiguous questions and how every point counts...for example...the last test we had in our med/surg class, t here was a question that was word for word from our study guide. The answer in the study guide was 'D' respitory infection, there was a rationale and I read it, it made sense to me and I moved on. Well when I saw that question on the test I was pleasantly suprised, I was like oohhh I know this one, I remember it from the study guide and I remembered why the study guide said it was right too. Well come to find out the teacher must not have known what the answer the study guide had as right was bc she marked the answer was 'B" dehydration, which in all fairness was right too. Well she didn't want to give us the point for that question and when I asked her about it she told me that I shouldnt just memorize the answers in the study guide...made me mad bc I didn't just memorize but I remembered answering that question in the study guide and I remembered why it was right too...made me upset..anyway...sorry for the vent..she said I should have critically thought it through and known dehydration was the answer..but in my defense, I don't know enough to determine if what the study guide says is right or wrong...I take for granted that all the answers and info in the books are right...again thanks for the chance to vent..
Recently though, one of my good friends got accused of cheating when she really wasn't. The teacher said she saw her eyes wandering but in her defense we were spaced so far apart that she really couldn't have been cheating..I dunno, I get nervous during tests and sometimes take a time out...sometimes I don't realize I might not be looking at my test but i'm not looking at anyone elses either...I try to remember NOT to look up from my test bc I dont want to be accused of cheating....
I'm curious whether to others think of this as cheating. I'm going to withhold my thoughts on it and what my friend did about it:
We just got our first exam back in Micro. Passing is an 80%. I passed with an 84%. A friend of mine missed the class before our exam, as her 5yo son was having surgery. He was in the hospital for 5 days, and came home 2 days before the exam. My friend stayed with her son in the hospital the whole time, which is in another state.
My friend takes the exam, but does tell the prof that it won't be representative of her best work, as she didn't have time to study as she wanted. She got a 74% on the exam when they were handed back.
We went over the exams in class, and were told to check the prof's math (adding up our own scores to make sure they're right). My friend realized that she did not get a 74, but instead a 66.
I know many people would not say anything regarding a lower score. Do you feel it's cheating not to say anything? Does her extenuating circumstances factor in to whether she should say anything or not? And if she didn't tell, do *I* have the obligation to say something to the prof if I know the grade is incorrect?
i agree some teachers push students into cheating. i remember once there was 10 of us that tried to fight a wrong answer. we had 5 different references books to back up our answer on one question.(and those ref. directly said her answer was not correct and stated why). one of those books was the med surg book we were using. the teacher refused to hear about it and after that did not review any other test. many teachers are not there to "teach" just to get a check. my first med surg class the teacher was always drunk even got kick out of 2 different hospitals for being drunk. the school knew about it but she is still teaching, while dunk i might add. for students in that class whatever will get them out i agee with. the school knows she is wrong, the other teachers know it, all the students now it, but nobody does anything about it. she was even reported to the boad a few times, still nothing. one question asking for a goal the answer was anemia. anemia? how is that a goal? when the system fails the student, what choice do they have. another thing is those teachers that fail more than half of their class every class for years, seems to be a teaching issue, its not happening. knowing that half the class will fail going in can lead to students cheating. well something to think about anyway.
I know many people would not say anything regarding a lower score. Do you feel it's cheating not to say anything? Does her extenuating circumstances factor in to whether she should say anything or not? And if she didn't tell, do *I* have the obligation to say something to the prof if I know the grade is incorrect?
i would say saying anything is up to her. i believe she should say something. the teacher will remember that and perhaps give her the benifit of the dout later. as far as you saying anything "NO" not saying anything does not mean you cheated, you have the right to remain sileint. i would not say anything. ethicaly yeah you should but in reality you dont want to open that can of worms. your a student not the inforcer of school policies. in the work place you may want to say something. as for her circumstances they mean nothing.
ok question for you; have you ever used a paper you did in one class for another class, is that cheating? did you say anything to the teacher? should you be reported?
I posted this already in another thread I started, but it keeps logging me out and I can't read any replies.
So, I'll ask all of you here.
In my A&P1 class, we had a lecture exam yesterday, and there were two girls cheating!!!!!
They sit one behind the other and several students saw them. Although I don't think the instructor did, because he grades other tests while we are testing.
What would all of you do? Because, this kinda makes me mad, when I bust my hump to keep an A in that class, and it is NOT easy to do!!!
I know that it will eventually catch up with them, but in the meantime, they are getting A's (maybe), and not doing the work that I or other students are.
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That was embarrassing. But in the end, she was embarassed, I probably studied more just to not give her any satisfaction! I still get elevated BP when I think of that...
RedSox33RN
1,483 Posts
Wow! Never heard of the rolling up of the sleeves, but makes sense. But I must say, Good Lord! Pretty soon we'll all be sitting butt-naked (or maybe worse, forced to wear a hospital johnny!!!:chuckle ) when we take a nursing exam!
I must admit, on my last Micro exam, I had SUCH a brain fart! I was having trouble remembering the "stationary" phase of cell growth (could not for the life of me remember the word "stationary"!) and caught my arm before it automatically reached for my notebook under my chair! My brain was still in "LOOK IT UP" mode!! Lord, would that have been embarrassing! Yeah, great cheater I'd be - just grab a book and look up the answer DURING the exam!!