caught up in a dilemma

SmilingRN · Aug 7, 2013

While the "D" letter grade could come off as a "black eye" on your transcript, I would still find a way to apply to the program of your choice after you retake any courses. I know someone who barely had a 2.9 when he/she applied to nursing school and still managed to graduate with a BSN from an accelerated program. That person even did so with a higher overall academic standing after the program was over. This may not be the case for everyone, however. With that said, I don't think that the fact that you are struggling right now means that you'll do horribly in nursing school. In fact, it may be just the opposite. While acing all of your nursing courses and clinical experiences may be rare for even the most determined student, it is not impossible. No one knows what was going on in your life when you took those courses to warrant such grades. Personally, I was never good at science or math in high school or college. However, I buckled down, read those "___ for Dummies" books for whatever subjects I was lacking in and used the Internet to build the skills that I never had or desired in my youth. To make a long story short, no one is perfect and just because your grades aren't typical of what most programs expect; it doesn't mean you automatically disqualify or will fail if the opportunity presents itself. You can go for some certifications (e.g. phlebotomy, CENA, PCT, etc.), involve yourself in some health-related programs or volunteer opportunities, and brush up on some of the topics that troubled you most in between time in order to build a strong character profile if you haven't already done so. It's so easy for us to see a candidate with a perfect G.P.A. and automatically assume that he or she will do great in nursing school. However, I know plenty of people who started with me who had a 3.9-4.0 just like I did who were nowhere to be found after the first week or so of classes. Was it academic inadequacy or lack of drive? Who really knows? I don't think it really matters at this point. Therefore, do not be discouraged. Sometimes we can be critical on this site and forget that there is a human being on the other side of the virtual board. Give it a chance because I'd hate for anyone to go through life without at least trying. What if only 25 people apply to the program you're interested in, but they're looking for 30? You would've chosen not to apply because the kind nurses over at allnurses.com told you to just hang it up? That would really stink. :poop: No one here knows your fate. But, I have faith in anyone with drive and passion regardless of what their past efforts show.

P.S. Where I live, the LPN program does allow its students to repeat courses with a limit of 2 total attempts while in the program. You have an unlimited amount of chances in the prerequisite courses. I used to work as a lab assistant for that program while obtaining my BSN and many students found success even with grades that weren't the best. Don't lose sight of what can be yours. Good luck!

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Aug 7, 2013

While the "D" letter grade could come off as a "black eye" on your transcript, I would still find a way to apply to the program of your choice after you retake any courses. I know someone who barely had a 2.9 when he/she applied to nursing school and still managed to graduate with a BSN from an accelerated program. That person even did so with a higher overall academic standing after the program was over. This may not be the case for everyone, however. With that said, I don't think that the fact that you are struggling right now means that you'll do horribly in nursing school. In fact, it may be just the opposite. While acing all of your nursing courses and clinical experiences may be rare for even the most determined student, it is not impossible. No one knows what was going on in your life when you took those courses to warrant such grades. Personally, I was never good at science or math in high school or college. However, I buckled down, read those "___ for Dummies" books for whatever subjects I was lacking in and used the Internet to build the skills that I never had or desired in my youth. To make a long story short, no one is perfect and just because your grades aren't typical of what most programs expect; it doesn't mean you automatically disqualify or will fail if the opportunity presents itself. You can go for some certifications (e.g. phlebotomy, CENA, PCT, etc.), involve yourself in some health-related programs or volunteer opportunities, and brush up on some of the topics that troubled you most in between time in order to build a strong character profile if you haven't already done so. It's so easy for us to see a candidate with a perfect G.P.A. and automatically assume that he or she will do great in nursing school. However, I know plenty of people who started with me who had a 3.9-4.0 just like I did who were nowhere to be found after the first week or so of classes. Was it academic inadequacy or lack of drive? Who really knows? I don't think it really matters at this point. Therefore, do not be discouraged. Sometimes we can be critical on this site and forget that there is a human being on the other side of the virtual board. Give it a chance because I'd hate for anyone to go through life without at least trying. What if only 25 people apply to the program you're interested in, but they're looking for 30? You would've chosen not to apply because the kind nurses over at allnurses.com told you to just hang it up? That would really stink. :poop: No one here knows your fate. But, I have faith in anyone with drive and passion regardless of what their past efforts show.
P.S. Where I live, the LPN program does allow its students to repeat courses with a limit of 2 total attempts while in the program. You have an unlimited amount of chances in the prerequisite courses. I used to work as a lab assistant for that program while obtaining my BSN and many students found success even with grades that weren't the best. Don't lose sight of what can be yours. Good luck!

This is the best sage advice I've heard on here, in addition to jadelpn's posts.

Unless PPs are on a admissions board, who can say WHO is accepted in nursing school??? Even that has a TON of variables...

I say this because my grades were NOT 4.0 when I entered a nursing program; yet they believed I was a strong enough candidate to get into their program; and they worked with me. I never failed a class, either...I finished with a 2.89. GPA does not equal the "best" nurse; it's WHAT you do once you receive your license in your clinical practice that makes it.

I stress this because there are people who have high GPAs who don't pass their boards the first time, let alone complete the program...I'm not inclined to tell someone what they are able to do, or NOT to do; ESPECIALLY if I'm not in that position or expertise; however; I have made PLENTY eat their words when so-called "experts" questioned whether I would have a chance in my local nursing community :nurse:

(((getting off the soapbox))))

I'm not sure what you are struggling with, OP...perhaps learning styles, study habits???

I FAILED nursing school many moons ago, yet 13 years later, I have been a LPN, and now a RN...I had entered that program with a 3.2 when I failed...I knew the work; the school didn't understand WHY I was barely passing the tests. It wasn't until I went to PN school that they helped me identify that I had test anxiety. Who knows what could've happened if one would've identified it sooner rather than later? *shrugs*...no matter now...my experiences made me a better nurse. :yes:

I suggest you talk to a couple of people in your area and at your school. Find out if you have test anxiety or perhaps a developmental disability (there are nurses who are successful in nursing that have been able to adjust with their developmental disabilities), or anything else that is occurring, including study habits and any outside issues. Next, you can talk to area schools; include PN programs as well; I suggest not going to a school that will break your budget in the future, especially if you may have to use federal student loans (to me, spending 30,000 on a PN program is insane). It will be up to YOU to make the changes that you need to accomplish this goal, if you truly want to enter nursing, or any other healthcare entity, IF you decide on a plan B.

If you decide to obtain other skills such as CNA course and/or phlebotomy; you can always take a step back, work in the field, and return to school after some time in the field as well.

Best wishes in the path that you choose that is best for you. :)

nursingstudentjess · Aug 7, 2013

Your best bet is to find a school that participates in the New Start Program. I know where I live some of the CUNY schools participate in it. What it does is give you a clean slate, meaning whatever previous credits you have will not be transferred and you will start from the beginning as a freshman student. This would give you the chance to start over without penalty, re-do classes, learn, and put your all into it. Good luck, if nursing is truly your passion I wish you all the best!

kaydensmom01 · Aug 7, 2013

This is the best sage advice I've heard on here, in addition to jadelpn's posts.
Unless PPs are on a admissions board, who can say WHO is accepted in nursing school??? Even that has a TON of variables...
I say this because my grades were NOT 4.0 when I entered a nursing program; yet they believed I was a strong enough candidate to get into their program; and they worked with me. I never failed a class, either...I finished with a 2.89. GPA does not equal the "best" nurse; it's WHAT you do once you receive your license in your clinical practice that makes it.
I stress this because there are people who have high GPAs who don't pass their boards the first time, let alone complete the program...I'm not inclined to tell someone what they are able to do, or NOT to do; ESPECIALLY if I'm not in that position or expertise; however; I have made PLENTY eat their words when so-called "experts" questioned whether I would have a chance in my local nursing community
(((getting off the soapbox))))
I'm not sure what you are struggling with, OP...perhaps learning styles, study habits???
I FAILED nursing school many moons ago, yet 13 years later, I have been a LPN, and now a RN...I had entered that program with a 3.2 when I failed...I knew the work; the school didn't understand WHY I was barely passing the tests. It wasn't until I went to PN school that they helped me identify that I had test anxiety. Who knows what could've happened if one would've identified it sooner rather than later? *shrugs*...no matter now...my experiences made me a better nurse.
I suggest you talk to a couple of people in your area and at your school. Find out if you have test anxiety or perhaps a developmental disability (there are nurses who are successful in nursing that have been able to adjust with their developmental disabilities), or anything else that is occurring, including study habits and any outside issues. Next, you can talk to area schools; include PN programs as well; I suggest not going to a school that will break your budget in the future, especially if you may have to use federal student loans (to me, spending 30,000 on a PN program is insane). It will be up to YOU to make the changes that you need to accomplish this goal, if you truly want to enter nursing, or any other healthcare entity, IF you decide on a plan B.
If you decide to obtain other skills such as CNA course and/or phlebotomy; you can always take a step back, work in the field, and return to school after some time in the field as well.
Best wishes in the path that you choose that is best for you. :)

While I do agree that GPA does not equal the best nurse, I do know that it is an indicator of how you understand the material, which obviously will be your clinical practice. If the OP is getting these F's and D's right after another then obviously he is not understanding the material, and you can not complete nursing school without understanding the material. You can not be a nurse that does not understand the physiology of the heart and of the renal system! It is a completely different situation if he has learned from his mistakes and remedied the situation so that he can completely understand the material; in this case he has not answered as to whether or not that is the case.

No testing is not always an accurate indicator in an individuals knowledge depth and comprehension, but it is a objective way to measure it. If there is some reason that the individual understands the material, yet can't test on it then obviously that needs to be figured out before that individual goes any further into their career because you can't pass nursing school with D's and they don't care if you can orally explain things they only care about you passing the tests because it is an objective measuring tool.

Fireman767 · Aug 7, 2013

Your best bet is to find a school that participates in the New Start Program. I know where I live some of the CUNY schools participate in it. What it does is give you a clean slate, meaning whatever previous credits you have will not be transferred and you will start from the beginning as a freshman student. This would give you the chance to start over without penalty, re-do classes, learn, and put your all into it. Good luck, if nursing is truly your passion I wish you all the best!

although that is an option, thats a very expensive option. CUNY itself is between $4k and $15k depending which school you go to, and it gets worse because you would need to stay in NYC or nearby. so a second chance is good with CUNY if you can push through the program and pass all classes in the first shot, otherwise youll end up with loans galore. But a second chance is valuable.

Not to be a downer, but nursing is strongly physiology and anatomy based, you would need to show proficiency. most programs take note of a few courses in particular, Anatomy, physiology, microbiology, Psychology 1+2, english 1+2. the core classes, and if you cant do so well in these, many colleges will not take the risk of a student who might not pass. Someone earlier suggested trying a different route, maybe respiratory therapy, or CNA, or EMT. they may help you to learn the basis of the field.

SopranoKris, MSN, RN, NP · Aug 7, 2013

If you've got a D in Physiology after 2 tries, I would question whether this is the appropriate field for you to pursue. Many schools will not allow more than 2 re-takes in a required pre-req. There is a lot of Physiology involved in nursing and you need a solid foundation in that course to understand Pathophysiology. I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.

You might want to see if there are points-based admissions at some of the colleges in your area. You might be able to off-set the GPA with points in other areas (such as paid HCE, volunteering, entrance exams, etc.) It all depends on the admissions criteria of each program. Some programs only consider your pre-req GPA and not your over-all GPA. But again, grades are usually the most heavily weighted criteria.

macgirl · Aug 7, 2013

in going to agree with the others who said if need to take a class more than twice... But that said I know a girl who took a class A&P 3 time failed it again and again, sometimes how it's taught factors in. Online is harder, some instructor give way too much info. Example, My A&p instuctor had a heart issue and we got the dept head she was great, then a sub he was terrible, I asked to get into her class (follow/transfer) I did best decision ever. I strongly preferd night classes, took another instructor, OMG 6 chapters anight in depth, he would print out lines and add to it. Transfered class dept head again she was good, not even 6 chapters a week. An covered thoughly and understandably. Perhaps ask around whos good do they have the class outline what the work is like, papers test, chapters a week, how it the material covered and explained. If your going to keep trying.

Not to be Debbie Downer but let me also say this, ALL my nursing instructers wanted A&P 1 and 2 to count for points along with Microbiology, Biology, Chemistry and algebra/statistics. Without out fail those that had to take those classes multiple times failed out first semester. One guy in class was taking A&P I for the 3rd time while in the program, he failed. It was a bone of contention for the instructors that he and other had gotten in, in the first place. There were over 600 applications for the program. It went by points and application date. 12 Point max day class was those with 11-12, (could also chose the night program Ie they were given first choice) then those with 10-11 points again ranked by date. They also had no maxium limit on retaking classes for point, But that was something the new admission counsler told me was changing (when we talked about my going from ADN to BSN after graduating) The drop out rate was 1/3 of the class in the first semester.

SmilingRN · Aug 7, 2013

@ Kaydensmom01 You make some valid points. However, there were several students in my nursing class with previous failures and some with learning disorders who went on to graduate on time from the program and subsequently pass their boards (on the first attempt for both). Nevertheless, I won't jump to conclusions and say that OP is in this category. You state that GPA is an indicator of how you understand the material, but I beg to differ. G.P.A. is a reflection of a overall grades, not IQ or mental acuity. Subpar grades do not mean that a person is not understanding the material. For instance, when I was in 3rd grade I hated school. I was teased by other kids, dreaded going everyday, and just really didn't care. I'm not sure how I made it to middle school? I used to act out in class, never do homework, and intentionally fail standardized tests. Was I not understanding what I was learning? Nope. I just had other issues at the time and I didn't care about how I performed academically or didn't really put forth an honest effort. If OP is anything like me, it could mean that he has test anxiety or perhaps didn't do the classwork.

I just hate to jump to conclusions based on someone's grades. I used to do that when I was a tutor and you just can't go off of this alone. Grades just don't reflect a person's true ability or intelligence. I know some super smart individuals who would rather skate by with just a "C" then to sit down, put forth the effort an earn an "A." It's strange, but true. OP seems like he really wants to become a nurse and I would want him to fully explore his range of options rather than being discouraged by some of us. Nursing judgment is not the same as intelligence testing. An IQ or mental development expert couldn't tell me how to do my job and I wouldn't guess how to do his/hers either.

Smiley06 · Aug 7, 2013

I agree with the PP. Sometimes just because your GPA is lower does not mean that you are not understanding the information. The OP may have to work a full-time job, or have kids that demand alot of attention, etc. you never know. I am lucky that my family allowed for me to come back home, quit my job and focus on studying and school. Many people do not have this luxury.

kaydensmom01 · Aug 7, 2013

@ Kaydensmom01 You make some valid points. However, there were several students in my nursing class with previous failures and some with learning disorders who went on to graduate on time from the program and subsequently pass their boards (on the first attempt for both). Nevertheless, I won't jump to conclusions and say that OP is in this category. You state that GPA is an indicator of how you understand the material, but I beg to differ. G.P.A. is a reflection of a overall grades, not IQ or mental acuity. Subpar grades do not mean that a person is not understanding the material. For instance, when I was in 3rd grade I hated school. I was teased by other kids, dreaded going everyday, and just really didn't care. I'm not sure how I made it to middle school? I used to act out in class, never do homework, and intentionally fail standardized tests. Was I not understanding what I was learning? Nope. I just had other issues at the time and I didn't care about how I performed academically or didn't really put forth an honest effort. If OP is anything like me, it could mean that he has test anxiety or perhaps didn't do the classwork.
I just hate to jump to conclusions based on someone's grades. I used to do that when I was a tutor and you just can't go off of this alone. Grades just don't reflect a person's true ability or intelligence. I know some super smart individuals who would rather skate by with just a "C" then to sit down, put forth the effort an earn an "A." It's strange, but true. OP seems like he really wants to become a nurse and I would want him to fully explore his range of options rather than being discouraged by some of us. Nursing judgment is not the same as intelligence testing. An IQ or mental development expert couldn't tell me how to do my job and I wouldn't guess how to do his/hers either.

If you read my paragraph again you will see that I do state that GPA does not always necessarily accurately reflect your comprehension, and I state nothing about IQ because I do know that IQ is an entirely different topic, but gpa is usually the most weighted measurement on your ability to succeed in a nursing program. I stated that if you do truly understand the material but find yourself not passing then you do need to stop what you are doing until you figure out the issue, because honestly nursing school does not care that you understand the material if you are failing the tests. They are not going to let you continue with D's.

I do stand by my opinion though, if you are passing other courses and continuously failing science courses you either need to do soul searching to see if you actually will enjoy nursing because it is so heavily based on the sciences and if you are sure it is what you want to do you should not retake the classes any more until you remedy the situation. I don't think that anyone should continue with D's until they figure out what is going on and raise those grades, because again grades are the most utilized objective measuring tool to predict success in the nursing program.

SmilingRN · Aug 7, 2013

@ Kaydensmom01 My initial paragraph was replying to your notion that grades indicate how you'll do in nursing school and whether someone is understanding the material. The subsequent paragraphs are about my personal thoughts (i.e. how I feel, what my experiences have been, my take on the topic overall). Therefore, I hope that you don't think that I was taking jabs at you or highlighting things that you clearly never mentioned. I merely emphasized that OP shouldn't give up. He stated that he is retaking the course with the D, so as far as a nursing school not wanting to see that---I'll assume that he knows and hence why he is retaking. Once again, I'll agree to disagree. The grades may help to objectively identify potential candidates at some schools. However, I know for a fact that at my university they consider some less than stellar academic outcomes to balance out the nursing student body. In fact, this is part of the reason why my school holds an in-person interview to gauge whether you'd be a good fit regardless of your accomplishments. Some of those students soar and some of them sink. But, I wouldn't tell someone not to fly because of a broken wing. I don't want you to take anything I'm saying personally. That's the beauty of this website...everyone shares their opinions in a respectful manner. If I have offended you or made you feel slighted by my post, I sincerely apologize. I've just noticed that OP hasn't came back into the discussion and it's not the end of the world because he has had a few rough grades.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Aug 7, 2013

While I do agree that GPA does not equal the best nurse, I do know that it is an indicator of how you understand the material, which obviously will be your clinical practice. If the OP is getting these F's and D's right after another then obviously he is not understanding the material, and you can not complete nursing school without understanding the material. You can not be a nurse that does not understand the physiology of the heart and of the renal system! It is a completely different situation if he has learned from his mistakes and remedied the situation so that he can completely understand the material; in this case he has not answered as to whether or not that is the case.

And you cannot make the assumption on WHAT is his case, either...

No testing is not always an accurate indicator in an individuals knowledge depth and comprehension, but it is a objective way to measure it. If there is some reason that the individual understands the material, yet can't test on it then obviously that needs to be figured out before that individual goes any further into their career because you can't pass nursing school with D's and they don't care if you can orally explain things they only care about you passing the tests because it is an objective measuring tool.

^And again, you make the assumption that ALL nursing schools grades as an objective measuring tool, as well. You would be VERY surprised how many people who get a seat in nursing school are statistically an outlier of the minimum, but have strength in other areas and yet go on to be VERY successful.

I, like Gina stated, will make no assumptions about the OP....unless you are on an admissions committee, then by all means opinine about how your program works, until then, who knows what the OP is going through? I suspect that he may have other issues that new to be addressed, and I stated in the post that you quoted. And I think that can help him start on his road to success, especially regarding test anxiety, or even a learning disability, even if he decides on a plan B. That's me assessing his situation before suggesting an intervention.

I think when one sees someone as failing, sometimes one forgets about people who learning abilities are different. Once that person who is struggling comes to those terms and learns a strategy, the road to success is much more possible.