California and Excelsior

RN34TX · Mar 22, 2006

Per Excelsior:
Because of the lack of concurrent clinical experience and per CA BORN, low pass rates of some CA Excelsior graduates, the board of nursing chose to no longer accept Excelsior as an approved nursing program.

Low pass rates of ANY Excelsior grads has not been even mentioned let alone documented during this case.

They (The CA BNE) couldn't, and didn't even have to, produce any evidence of EC grads being incompetent in order to win this case.

Excelsior never mentioned any of that, so none of that is actually "per Excelsior", as you posted.

You stated that many are missing the point here.

Who is missing the point?

Where did you get this information?

I'm interested in seeing where the "low pass rates" came from.

Do you have any info to back that statement up?

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Mar 22, 2006

case law: excelsior college v. board of registered nursing (2006) [ cal.app ...

ca born info:

2000 report: nclex task force report

newsletter: spring 2001 board studies nclex-rn pass rate: calif graduates 83%, other us graduates = 73.5%

newsletter fall 2003 first time nclex pass rate: calif education 85%, overall rate includes outside us education (41% pass, ) and out of state education: 66%

5 yr pass rates instate programs: http://www.rn.ca.gov/schools/passrates.htm

from excelsior: notice for california nursing students

Sheri257 · Mar 22, 2006

Is asking schools of nursing in any state to put students through more clinical rotations going to produce better nurses?

Let me put it to you this way ... it wouldn't hurt and it probably would help in at least some cases. You were an experienced LVN with lots of acute care experience so, I can understand how you would feel you didn't need more clinicals.

But not all LVN's have on the job acute care experience. In my class, for example, only two out of six LVN's have actually worked in acute care. The other four have either worked in the OR, LTC, or rehab and one of the LVN's has no job experience at all. And, of course, there are the other non-LVN EC students who don't have any nursing experience.

As you guys have pointed out in the past, EC only requires the license. They don't require X amount of years on the job in specific areas. So for those EC students who haven't worked as acute care LVN's, I do think there is a legitimate argument that additional clinicals do help produce better nurses. At least the exposure to all of these different clinicals has got to be beneficial to some extent.

Does that mean traditional schools don't produce incompetent nurses? No. But for those EC students who don't have acute care nursing experience, the additional clinical hours would probably help them become better nurses.

:typing

Sheri257 · Mar 22, 2006

I work in MICU, SICU, Burn ICU, and PACU, and I would think that it would be ridiculous for Texas to say no to an experienced RN for licensure because they didn't complete enough clinical hours in L&D, psych, or whatever.

Again, I see your point here. But it still boils down to whether or not the board should suspend the rules for a specific group. As was pointed out earlier on this thread, the UK nurses are running into the same problem with all of the state boards.

Not too long ago, you posted a story about the policy at your hospital, where everybody is supposed to take turns filling in for night shift. Yet, a new grad who has connections with the manager doesn't have to work night shift at all. I assume you mentioned it because this is unfair to all of the other veteran RN's who work there.

I'm sure the new grad, or anyone who benefits from exceptions will argue that it's a good thing because it's in their best interest. But is it really a good thing to have the rules apply to one group and not the other? No ... not really.

Just because exceptions are made doesn't mean they should be made. As your example with the new grad demonstrates, it ultimately causes problems for everyone. And just because other states have given EC an exemption doesn't mean California should also.

Regardless of what other states do, it's just wrong to suspend the rules for one group of people over everybody else. And you really can't fault California for applying to same rules to everyone because, it's the only fair and equitable thing to do.

:typing

MedictoRN · Mar 22, 2006

per CA BORN, low pass rates of some CA Excelsior graduates,QUOTE]
I have never heard of a lower pass rate for EC student, I have however SEEN statistics ranking them as much higher than the national average. Do you have a source that I can review for this information or is it more of California's unfounded propaganda?

RN34TX · Mar 22, 2006

Let me put it to you this way ... it wouldn't hurt and it probably would help in at least some cases. You were an experienced LVN with lots of acute care experience so, I can understand how you would feel you didn't need more clinicals.
But not all LVN's have on the job acute care experience. In my class, for example, only two out of six LVN's have actually worked in acute care. The other four have either worked in the OR, LTC, or rehab and one of the LVN's has no job experience at all. And, of course, there are the other non-LVN EC students who don't have any nursing experience.
As you guys have pointed out in the past, EC only requires the license. They don't require X amount of years on the job in specific areas. So for those EC students who haven't worked as acute care LVN's, I do think there is a legitimate argument that additional clinicals do help produce better nurses. At least the exposure to all of these different clinicals has got to be beneficial to some extent.
Does that mean traditional schools don't produce incompetent nurses? No. But for those EC students who don't have acute care nursing experience, the additional clinical hours would probably help them become better nurses.
:typing

Agreed.

Very valid points brought up here.

I try to look at this from a bigger perspective than my own personal experience and situation, but I guess in many ways, I am still looking at it from my own experience and not the variety of backgrounds and situations that led others to RN licensure via EC.

Again, something that EC needs to work on if it is to survive this and possible future situations with state boards.

RN34TX · Mar 22, 2006

Not too long ago, you posted a story about the policy at your hospital, where everybody is supposed to take turns filling in for night shift. Yet, a new grad who has connections with the manager doesn't have to work night shift at all. I assume you mentioned it because this is unfair to all of the other veteran RN's who work there. :typing

Allright, did you have to stab me right in the heart with that one??:roll

LOL!!

Funny you brought that up because my co-workers are discussing and fuming over that issue right at this moment.

Again, I see some valid points from you here as well.

RN34TX · Mar 22, 2006

case law: excelsior college v. board of registered nursing (2006) [ cal.app ...
ca born info:
2000 report: nclex task force report
newsletter: spring 2001 board studies nclex-rn pass rate: calif graduates 83%, other us graduates = 73.5%
newsletter fall 2003 first time nclex pass rate: calif education 85%, overall rate includes outside us education (41% pass, ) and out of state education: 66%
5 yr pass rates instate programs: http://www.rn.ca.gov/schools/passrates.htm
from excelsior: notice for california nursing students

karen,

i clicked on all of those links and didn't see anything about low pass rates for ec grads.

were you referring to the cpne pass rates?

i thought that you were referring to the nclex and didn't see any mention of low pass rates for ec grads on any of the sites.

did i miss it?

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Mar 22, 2006

ec pass rates are not specifically mentioned as school is out of state..missplaced link i had to ny state program pass rates.

over the past five years, ec has stopped permiting emt's and in 2004:

please note: effective september 1, 2004, certified surgical technologists and certified medical assistants are no longer eligible for admission into the excelsior college school of nursing.

https://www.excelsior.edu/portal/page?_pageid=57,53286&_dad=portal&_schema=portal

why do you think they've changed their admission standards? it's because they want to have the most qualified candidates to be able to

a) take and pass nclex exam upon graduation

b) sucessfully practice as beginning registered nurse

on slightly different note, here is a story regarding academy of nursing, a utah " prep program" that was feeding thirty candidates per month to excelsior....read this newspaper story:

academy troubles upset many students

and followup: potential nurses end up in debt, disappointed

as nursing professionals, it is imperative that we safeguard our education standards with quality over quantity at all times. afterall, a human life is in our hands. i highly support career mobility and encouraging new avenues of education via distance learning/internet courses but graduates must have sufficient preparation to function as entry level rn's and not find themselves unemployable because they don't have the skills to be able to funtion in that role.

RN34TX · Mar 22, 2006

Why do you think they've changed their admission standards? It's because they want to have the most qualified candidates to be able to
a) take and pass NCLEX exam upon graduation
b) sucessfully practice as beginning Registered Nurse

That's not entirely true.

Yes, they definitely want both "A" and "B" to occur, every school does.

But that's not why they toughened their admission standards.

They already had average to above average NCLEX pass rates consistently every year.

They toughened their admission standards in an effort to remedy some building concern and scrutiny from state boards, particularly CA.

This was even noted in your "Academy" article.

It was not done out of necessity to raise NCLEX passing standards and there is no data to support that theory.

I agree that EC was well, well overdue in toughening it's admission standards. Now they just need to work on their curriculum.

BTW, I did find the "Academy" article very interesting to read.

Thank you for posting it.

I feel bad for those people who got swindled by them.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Mar 22, 2006

I agree with RN34TX on that one. I also lost the NY pass rate link, but when I started the EC program in 2003 I had looked up their NCLEX pass rates prior to enrolling, and distinctly remember them being higher than at least state average. That was one of the things that made me feel safer doing the program. On a personal note, I have had contact with tons of EC grads in the last few years and do not know 1 grad that has not passed the NCLEX on the first try- most at 75 questions.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Mar 22, 2006

But not all LVN's have on the job acute care experience. In my class, for example, only two out of six LVN's have actually worked in acute care. The other four have either worked in the OR, LTC, or rehab and one of the LVN's has no job experience at all. And, of course, there are the other non-LVN EC students who don't have any nursing experience.

Experience within that dept should be taken into consideration.