One of my goals is to eventually be able to purchase a house. Many of my nursing colleagues are purchasing homes that are worth $450,000, $500,000 or even more. Sadly, my budget is about half of that or even less, which means the houses I have to choose from are not appealing. Most of them are small, old, or both.
I am just curious how other nurses manage to purchase decent houses? I've been looking through my income, and I just can't find a way to make it possible to incorporate such a house into my budget. I am salary, so there are no opportunities for overtime.
What are other nurses' experience with buying houses? How did you make it work? Did it require switching jobs? Inquiring minds want to know!
I agree its not a badge of honour, but the different salaries in different countries attract different types of people. We are taught its a vocation, and not for monetary gain. Many of us work alongside nuns, and have had nursing teachers who are nuns, and that sense of service has remained since Florence and her gang began our profession.
My point its the culture is very different in the US and the high salaries make it attractive to people who would not be seen dead working as a nurse in other countries. Nursing has a completely different public perception, and a salary to match. I wonder how many US nurses would be in the profession if they knew that their salaries would never be much above minimum wage, and their job satisfaction was considered their reward instead?
But like us, they are taught that nursing is about service and compassion, and not monetary reward. I just don't see that concept catching on in American nursing recruitment!
You say it's "not a badge of honor" to be paid so little, but then go on to strongly imply that it's better for nursing to be "a vocation, not for monetary gain." As if it's not possible to believe strongly in the importance of your work, do it well, and still wish to be fairly compensated for it.
So here's another side of American nursing. Over the last year, millions of us risked our health, and some lost their lives, battling COVID. We showed up to work day after day to face an unknown enemy. We showed up when there were no tests to tell us who had the virus. We showed up when we had to use the same n-95 shift after shift or there were no n-95s at all. We reused simple medical masks until they were soiled or torn. We reused gowns. We put on garbage bags or rain ponchos, and cared for the sick. We came to work when patients were dying all around us. We came to work in hospitals that had refrigerator trucks parked outside as make shift morgues. We went home and stripped down in the garage or at the back door before running to shower before touching our kids. We were exhausted and traumatized, but we showed up, and did our best to support the sick, and ease the dying, and comfort families on the phone.
That was not about money. That was about doing what had to be done because someone had to do it and we had the skills so we were the someones.
And people called us heroes. Politicians talked about how brave we were, while not doing diddly to get us what we need. Hospital administrators entered a bizarre world of nearly black-market dealings, trying to secure basic PPE, never knowing if it was real or if it would be seized. And sometimes the people seizing it did so on behalf of the federal government to stockpile it somewhere or send it to another state that voted a different way.
And that's when I learned how much easier it is to call people heroes for risking their lives than it is to put money into making their jobs easier or safer.
Frankly, I think it's exploitative to expect millions of people to work for "job satisfaction" rather than a living wage. Note that it's usually the traditionally female-driven sectors (nursing, teaching, social work) that are expected to be selfless angels of mercy rather than fairly-compensated professionals.
So call me an American, but I prefer the model that looks at nursing as a profession rather than a vocation. Being monetarily compensated for my education, time, and skill is not something I am ashamed of. Living in a dorm is fine in the short term if you're young and single, but if you are trying to raise a family, you need a job that will support a family. As a US nurse, I will take care of your mother, your son, your spouse, and I will do that with dedication and compassion. But I'm not going to do that at the expense of being able to have a family of my own. I'm not just a nurse; I'm a human being, and my family matters, too.
You wonder how many US nurses would choose the job if it paid barely above minimum wage. I wonder how many potentially amazing nurses never enter the profession abroad because they're made to choose between becoming a nurse and any hope of financial stability. Being well paid isn't the opposite of being a caring and compassionate nurse. Sometimes being financially stable is what makes it possible for someone to be a good nurse for the long term.
But I see a different type of person going in nursing in the US. These folk wouldn't look twice at a nursing career if they knew they would be hovering around minimum wage their entire career.
Yes, I definitely wouldn't. I'm not sure why anyone would sign up to be treated like a cross between a 2-year-old, a pack mule and a criminal by some humongous money-making corporation and not make a living wage.
You're not seeing the side of this where our profession/vocation/calling/life of servitude has been taken over and perverted by corporations--and it was able to happen because of people's dedication. That is nearly the only reason!!
You'd be even more disappointed if you knew the dog-and-pony shows our healthcare organizations can find to spend money on.
Yes, a great number of us want to care for others. We're kind of in a bit of a pickle here and don't deserve to be made out as uncaring and only focused on money.
Also if you are really interested you can do to the local Accessors office and do a detailed title and ownership search (and actually see the mortgage documents in most cases). As a former "title searcher" I could develop a tremendous body of information on individuals based upon nothing more than an address.
I wonder how many US nurses would be in the profession if they knew that their salaries would never be much above minimum wage, and their job satisfaction was considered their reward instead?
I certainly would not work for minimum wage, nor am I ashamed of that. I'm not selfish, but I do need to be able to support my family, and maintain a roof over my head, buy food, medications, and hopefully not end up living in my car as I almost did a few years ago. I became a nurse to help people. I have compassion. And yes, I also am excited to eventually be able to be more than 1 paycheck away from being homeless. ❤
That's and awfully broad brush you're using to disparage a country with 330 million people in it.
Not really. Not sure how much you have traveled or how long you spent in those countries when you traveled, but the North American continent specifically America, is quite unique to the rest of the world. I have been privileged to move in brief periods in the upper middle class parts of the world in the UK, Denmark and Sweden as well as here in America and I can assure you that they have a similar level of wealth at those levels, but their cultural values and interests are very different.
In America we almost appear to be showing off in a look at me kind of way. There they try to hide their wealth almost in embarrassment, it depends on what class they came from of course. In these circles, I have noticed that even mentioning money of any kind is likely to get you a dirty look or ostracized. They appear to view loud voices and ostentatious people as crude and shallow. In America we seem to need affirmation that we have arrived so we have all sorts of friends and things. There, they seem to have a close cadre of people they socialize with because they have different criterion for the friendship. They don't gossip and seem to respect each other's privacy. They don't have the insecurity factor that knowing some information, elevates their status. Conversations are rarely personal. It just appears that there's more respect for individuals than what we have here. People just seem to have their own lives that they are involved in and are not interested in other people's.
I view current nurses wages as middle class based on our purchasing power. But consider this, imagine that for less than $300 for a weekend, full board, you could fly in under four hours as far as Moscow, Vienna, or Istanbul or Gibraltar or so many different places from London and experience so many different cultures and people. Where can we fly to in four hours, full board and not find a Walmart or a McDonalds? That might explain why their lives might be fuller and they don't need 450k houses to feel good about themselves!
I'm generalizing of course and limited to just my experiences and impressions.
In America we almost appear to be showing off in a look at me kind of way.
No, In America some people behave like that and a very small "some". From your past posts it's clear your circle included the 1%ers. That leaves at least 90% (accounting for the moderately wealthy) of us who don't have any use for or the circumstances to show off nor the means to extensively travel to Europe to hobnob with the wealthy. I refuse to allow someone to judge my character based on what is, by and large, a stereotype of Americans brought on by Hollywood and social media.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
14 hours ago, skylark said:
I wonder how many US nurses would be in the profession if they knew that their salaries would never be much above minimum wage, and their job satisfaction was considered their reward instead?
No, In America some people behave like that and a very small "some". From your past posts it's clear your circle included the 1%ers. That leaves at least 90% (accounting for the moderately wealthy) of us who don't have any use for or the circumstances to show off nor the means to extensively travel to Europe to hobnob with the wealthy. I refuse to allow someone to judge my character based on what is, by and large, a stereotype of Americans brought on by Hollywood and social media.
I do have a reasonably good income but I worked for it. Anyone making over $60k as is most nurses can afford a good house.
I just rented a house out last week with four converted apartments. I picked it up in October from the bank foreclosure. 3200 Sq ft. $185k. Needed cosmetic work. I converted the top three floors and the basement into individual apartments. I spent $47k on the conversions. I expect it to value currently over $350k because of the conversions. That is over 100k in equity, no taxes because I'm not selling, to play with on my next project. All in under 6 months. The 250k loan I took out will convert to a conventional for around 2.5% quickly until I find something lower. You do the math.
That's how nurses can afford 450k if they want them. I'm planning to move into a used 40ft construction trailer fully equipped that I can get for under $20k and rent my house out. It's all about perspective. I don't need to keep up with the Joneses, because I don't keep people like that around me.
It's all about perspective. I don't need to keep up with the Joneses, because I don't keep people like that around me.
Yes and neither do the vast majority of Americans yet you pretty much alleged the opposite in your earlier post as noted below.
7 hours ago, Curious1997 said:
In America we almost appear to be showing off in a look at me kind of way.
But so far the only poster here who has very clearly documented their wealthy upbringing, access to private jets, multiple trips to Europe and real estate wealth is well...you. So it seems a little disingenuous for you to appear to chide Americans, as a whole, as being show offs while kind of showing off and at the same time verbally patting me on the head and telling me my worldview is limited because I haven't traveled as extensively as you. It's a little off-putting. I don't worry about "keeping up with the Joneses" because there just aren't many of them around and it isn't my style. I will admit bristling at being judged by an outsider on the behavior of a very small percentage of the population.
Yes and neither do the vast majority of Americans yet you pretty much alleged the opposite in your earlier post as noted below.
But so far the only poster here who has very clearly documented their wealthy upbringing, access to private jets, multiple trips to Europe and real estate wealth is well...you. So it seems a little disingenuous for you to appear to chide Americans, as a whole, as being show offs while kind of showing off and at the same time verbally patting me on the head and telling me my worldview is limited because I haven't traveled as extensively as you. It's a little off-putting. I don't worry about "keeping up with the Joneses" because there just aren't many of them around and it isn't my style. I will admit bristling at being judged by an outsider on the behavior of a very small percentage of the population.
Hey, if the shoe fits?
Wuzzie, I think you are confusing me with my parents. They have money. I worked for mine. They paid for my sisters educations. My brother and I worked in construction to pay for ours. My parents are old school. Boys have to make their way in this world. I totally agree with them. I admit that I was able to use their connections somewhat and my brother did get into Drexel's engineering because of my mother's connections, but he had to pay.
You don't win the lottery unless you buy a ticket! The OP dream of a 450k house is what will motivate her to get it. You have to get off your backside and work, take chances to succeed. Turn your skills into a profit making enterprise. You will fail but you will learn from the failures.
If you feel patronized, that's on you. I don't let anyone define how I feel if I can help it. Everything that happens is on you. You have lemons, you make lemonade!
Most of that small percentage you mention, is all for show. Huge mortgages, car payments, club fees, etc. They are in it up to their necks. The one thing my parents imparted to all of us, is to save and be careful. Misfortune happens to everyone. Be prepared. Always have a nest egg. And the only expensive item I own frivolously is an AMG Black C63, which I deserve because I worked my butt of for it. My everyday car is a 95 Toyota Camry that I absolutely love. Looks like crap but is totally reliable. Reflects me, IMO.
If you feel patronized, that's on you. I don't let anyone define how I feel if I can help it. Everything that happens is on you. You have lemons, you make lemonade!
There's a difference between being patronized and feeling patronized. I'm too old to let that kind of crap rent space in my head but if I feel like someone is treating me in such a manner I'm going to let them know.
35 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:
Most of that small percentage you mention, is all for show.
If you admit it's a small percentage then why did you disagree with me in the first place that saying Americans are greedy and jealous was a rather broad brush.
Wuzzie
5,238 Posts
^ This about a billion times over.