BSN vs. ADN income disparity

[romie]

I just went to a job fair and got a sheet from Loyola Hospital in Chicago. They pay their new ADN's 24.20. They pay new BSNs only 24.50 an hour. That does not make me happy at all.

I am currently enrolled in a direct entry program for people with degrees in other fields. My classmates are geniuses--many are researchers, most have masters degrees and we even have a girl in my class who has a PhD in Molecular Biology. We are training to become Nurse Practitioners. I personally have over 10 years of healthcare experience as an unlicensed assistive personell or healthcare manager and you are telling me that after all is said and done, you are still only going to pay me .30 an hour more than an ADN nurse once I enter the workforce as an RN while continuing with my NP education? I am definitely not applying to Loyola if they care so little about education.

Every member of the nursing faculty at my university and every nurse who is teaching me has a PhD in nursing... Do you see where I am getting at? You don't necessarily get this preparation as an ADN student...

[romie]

Tp RRsWe:

Yes in fact, most of my classmates in my direct entry program are in fact "geniuses" compared to what you find in ADN and even general BSN programs. More than half of us have advanced degrees- many in public health, social work and psychology. A quater of the my classmates (there were only 40 accepted out of 550 applications, which required the GRE) were researchers, including one who was a lead researcher at the Mayo Clinic. We a have student who was a practicing JD, a PhD Molecular Biologist, students who were fulbright scholars and red cross volunteers at Katrina and Peace Corps members. I am sorry if I sound condescending and hurt the feelings of those of you who think my graduating class deserve the same pay as some low tier ADN graduate. I think one of the major problems of nursing is that the professional lacks b---s and pretty much has low self esteem and allows themselves to be undervalued.

As far as doing my research on nursing pay RNsRWe, I have done my own thorough research using university resources and my masters degree knowlege on how to do research and find information beyond google, so don't offend me there.

[NeosynephRN]

I am still not sure what being a lawyer has to do with Nursing...so you have a classmate that is a lawyer...and a bunch with higher education...SO do I...I have 5 in my class with Masters degree's...and almost everyone else has a bachelors...but since we are all attending a "low tier" community college...we are not going to be as good of a nurse as you are?!? What a crock!!! NOT one of my classmates that has thier masters has ever complained that they will make the same amount of money as the rest of us...you will have the same nursing skills as those of us that are apparently slumming in the CC...and we will have half your attitude, so in my opinion we will be better off!!

[romie]

My point about the student who was a practicing JD is that we are a smart group of students. And I happen to be going to one of the top Colleges of Nursing int the country. Sorry about my "attitude", I am actually a really nice person in real life, I come from a marginalized segment of society, worked my a$$ at universities for the past 8 years, I come from a very low Socioeconomic status, so my "attitude" is really me just being mad at other people for selling themselves short. Quit defending allowing nurses to get low pay.

[vickynurse]

I admire your convictions but the truth is an RN is an RN - whether they have a BSN or ADN.

Your goal is nurse practitioner I see. No worries - they make more than RN's usually.

NP pay can be very disappointing. For me it would have been a cut in pay for FAR FAR more responsibility and liability. Take a look before you take the leap!

[sunnyjohn]

I have no problem with BSN and direct -entry grads being paid a premium. The profession should value education.

HOWEVER, I do think every new nurse, Diploma, ADN, BSN or direct-entry MS should spend some time at the bedside AS A NURSE before they go of into nurse management or other lofty advanced nursing fields.

Why not add the bedside nursing contact experience to your management repertoire? "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Even with past experinces in medical management and healthcare, bedside exerience is a good thing. How much better to understand the complaints of those around you when you've walked in their shoes.

[jjjoy, LPN]

Personally, I don't think any new grad nurse should be making the same as an experienced nurse. Orientees should be on a lower pay scale until they are taking a full-load.

I understand that no one likes to see someone get paid more for doing the same job. However, as it is RNs don't have any control over increasing their payscale. If BSNs were on a different pay scale (though straight out of school newbies should get the same pay, BSN or not), then one could boost one's salary by going back to school instead of having to find another job altogether to get better pay.

But nursing costs are one of the many things hospitals are always trying to control. So of course, they don't want to create a system that means increasing salaries. It also doesn't make sense to them to encourage nurses to have BSNs because BSNs are less likely to put with poor staffing and the like because they have more well-paid opportunities outside of the hospital.

[romie]

I wish to apologize to everyone for accidently starting a flamming war. I think we should avoid personal attacks. I think we should honor all nurses--remember that the first nurses were brave selfless people who did the dirtiest work under the worst conditions. Every nurse, be it an LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN or PhD prepared nurse who is in direct contact with their patients or community of patients should be honored. I'd like to see everyone's pay increased--whatever the Physical Therapist did to make themselves so valuable, I don't know.

I am cranky from my diet and stress from school--my program has an exam practically every other day-- normally my posts are pleasant and supportive. I am ashamed I have come off c*cky, which in real life I am very humble. I know that some of the most awesome bedside nurses are diploma nurses who can spot a urinary meatus in a female in the dark from across the room while some BSN prepared newbies couldn't find it even with GPS and a map.

I think nurse managers need to stay connected to their patients. I get annoyed at nurse managers who never bother to meet patients yet make critical decisions about their care. In my management position--I was an Alzheimer's Director, I did all of the management stuff, I was a department head, but you know what, I still wiped up poo, helped bus dishes, gave my CNA's breaks from difficult residents, because to me it is always about people. They inspire me to come to work every day. So I hope we can end this thread on a more positive note.

I think the real problem lies with the hospital administrators--not necessarily nurses. Sure, I think if nurses did a better job of organizing themselves--look what the california nurses did--they rock! It's too bad all of you awesome nurses are usually too wiped out after work due to administration imposed short staffing to organize yourself, especially if you have the second job of taking care of kids and keeping your significant other happy while maintaining some semblance (sp) of a personal life.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I wish to apologize to everyone for accidently starting a flamming war. I think we should avoid personal attacks.

Personal attacks are a T.O.S. violation. Please report them using the report system to the side using the button that looks like this:

This forum was created to group these discussion in one forum. A little more leeway is allowed for "heated discussions" than on other forums, but if anyone anytime feels a personal attack is going on, let us know.

Thanks.

Please note that I have moved several posts off forum. So if you get an pm that a post has been moved, it's because it was off-topic, inflammatory, or you were responding to a flame.

[nurse4theplanet, RN]

Every nurse, be it an LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN or PhD prepared nurse who is in direct contact with their patients or community of patients should be honored.

I can understand how it would be frustrating to invest more time and energy into your education, and not reap the benefits immediately at the bedside.

However, as I pointed out previously...the BSN graduate is prepared to move in other extensions of nursing, where the ADN is not. Therefore, you investment does pay off in other respects.

As you have stated, you have the option to pursue other positions in nursing and leave the low bedside pay to others. If that is your choice, then do so. No need in insulting anyone or suggesting that ADNs are inferior. That's just an all around bad attitude to have. Someone that claims to be so highly educated should easily recognize that. Good luck in your endeavors!:nuke:

[cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN]

.....

[romie]

Again, I wish to apologize to anyone who felt I may have insinuated that ADNs are inferior. Thank you Soldier'swife for reminding me to be humble.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Romie, I appreciate your apology. I think some of the things you said were wrong and a bit disrespectful, but you've also made some very good points as well. (Leeway given for crankiness from the diet and school. I'm doing that myself right now. LOL) I hope you've gained an understanding of how we feel and I wish you well with your degree and career.

All opinions are valid however and should be respected, including yours and everyones, whether I agree or not.