BSN requirement for all RNs

Nurses General Nursing

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Should a bachelors degree be required for all RNs?

Canada has eliminated two year RN's as an earlier poster said. No hospital trained nurses, no community college nurses.

The BScN includes one years worth of Arts credits.

This requirement has spawned a new nursing degree that admits people with other BA's to nursing and gives them a BScN in an accelerated programme.

I can honestly say they were some of the worst student nurses I've ever had to work with. They felt that bedside patient care was beneath them. I also had one explain to me that there was nothing they could learn from an LPN. This was after how I explained that you need to raise the bed to working height and lower the siderails to give a bedbath. This student honestly thought that she'd be getting LPNs to do all her bedbaths and patient care after she had graduated "because you don't have a degree and I'll be the Charge Nurse). Her original degree was in Medieval French Literature.

The male students were business degree types who wanted to go into hospital/healthcare management.

Not getting too many hands on nurses there are we!

I just graduated with my BSN in May and I can honestly say I agree with parts of both sides of the debate. I did have the feeling as a new BS nurse that I didn't have competitive skills with the ADN's. Partly, because I heard this all through school "BSNs don't get the same amount of clinical time...they don't have the bedside skills ADNs have because they don't focus on nursing". What I actually found out when I started working is that new nurse = new nurse. Period. All new grads have a learning curve. You can't tell one from the other by their respective educational level.

Now I was also told in school that research shows BSN give a higher level of care in the hospital (not wanting to offend, just what we were taught), but my experiences have also taught me this is not the case. I think the BS is so hyped up to us in school, it does tend to make some of us snobs and think we are too good to do the baths and other "grunt" work. I worked as a tech in school and I can tell you I don't hesitate to turn, give baths, clean pts, whatever. The essence of nursing is caring and by doing the routine things for the pt you're giving them hands on care that is needed when pts are sick.

IMHO though it all comes down to what is good for you and what your goals are. I know a lot of nurses in the hospital who went back for nursing as a second career in their 40's, had families that depended on them, and needed to finish as soon as possible, so they got ADN. I respect that just as I respect someone going back for the BSN hoping to get in management, or someone going back just to learn a little bit more. Nursing is a dynamic field with so much flexibility and opportunity- no where is that flexibility demonstrated more than in the varying educational levels. Is that not the beauty of our profession? I think so.

I also think nursing is a profession, and understand what the poster meant about raising our education level to help the public view us less as a technical field and more as a profession. However, I know plenty of doctors, physical therapists, NURSES too, who aren't professionals- by their manners, attitudes, etc. Each of us determines what makes a professional. The public can have whatever oppinion they want of nursing as far as I'm concerned, because no one really knows what nursing is all about except nurses. Bottom line, good nurse, bad nurse, I don't think education makes you good or bad, as someone else mentioned NCLEX = RN.

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I also think nursing is a profession, and understand what the poster meant about raising our education level to help the public view us less as a technical field and more as a profession. However, I know plenty of doctors, physical therapists, NURSES too, who aren't professionals- by their manners, attitudes, etc. Each of us determines what makes a professional. The public can have whatever oppinion they want of nursing as far as I'm concerned, because no one really knows what nursing is all about except nurses. Bottom line, good nurse, bad nurse, I don't think education makes you good or bad, as someone else mentioned NCLEX = RN.
Well said. I don't however, agree with the BSN ever changing the public's view of nursing.

I've met many patients and families who assumed that all nurses had bachelors or masters degrees and had no idea on the different levels. I've met many other patients and families that have no clue as to what an LPN or LVN is or what distinguishes them from an RN. A lot of that problem is that even we as nurses cannot agree on what distinguishes us at our respective levels. How in the heck do you expect the public to be able to? CNA's and MA's are often referred to as nurses by the public as well.

Another reason that I don't feel that the BSN will change the public's perception of nursing is the fact that I work with many RN's who have BSN clearly showing on their nametags and guess what?

They get abused and screamed at by family members and MD's just as much as us ADN's and LPN's.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Geriatric, Behavioral Health.

I do not believe a BSN should be required in the USA. In fact, I think it would be impossible to expect this, at least now. In 30 years, who knows?...but, maybe not even then. The BSN, MSN, PhD is only as good as you expect to use it...IF, you plan to use it for anything at all beyond the satisfaction in obtaining it. Personally, I believe education is fun and rewarding. The more one knows, the better off one is in general. If one can afford it or obtain funds, my belief is...why not?, go for it then. However, I do not necessarily believe it makes one wiser. I'm seen some very wise folks without the educational credentials (per se), and sadly, I've seen very unwise educated folks as well. Nursing on the floor requires folks that are wise, that can assess/evaluate, think, and intervene on their own two feet. Critical thinking IS the most valuable tool one can learn in a nursing program today...I mean, in any program. Education is only as good as you use it...can you apply it appropriately? If not, a BSN, MSN, PhD can become like a dusty book on a shelf or simply a medal one wears on one's chest. In today's environment, to be in management (if you want to go there) almost requires in many places a BSN. In teaching, minimal MSN in many places. If you teach in a college, a PhD.

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Should a bachelors degree be required for all RNs?
Nope.

VizslaMom RN, ADN, BSN

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Yes...a BSN should be entry level for RN's.

With a grandfather clause for those RN's now I must add. I'd like to see Federal funding to help diploma and AD courses merge with BSN programs.

Many nurses do not agree, but I feel strongly BSN entry level will help RN's unite.

I also like Canada's stacked program...one is a LPN after first year or so and can choose to go on, but BSN is the only RN degree and is required. They also grandfathered their diploma and AD nurses, rightfully so.

I cannot support forcing RN's to return to school...that stinks of a money grab and a racket. (and this is how I see BSN programs treating AD and diploma nurses now who go back, refusing to accept credits, etc) Its wrong.

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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

Oh, gawd.......not THIS argument again. :angryfire

I've been an ADN for 7 1/2 years. I graduated at age 38, and it took four years to get that two-year degree. I have absolutely NO desire to go back to college, drive 70 miles one way, and pay boocoo bucks to learn statistics and organic chemistry, only to go back to the bedside (where I'm happiest) and do the same job I do now for the same pay.

If I were younger, if there were a four-year program close by, if the course content were more applicable to my actual work, AND if someone were to pay me to go back, I'd be more than happy to finish not only a BSN, but an MSN because I'd love to teach. Otherwise, we ought to just quit hashing over this old conflict, because we ALL take the same NCLEX and we ALL work like dogs no matter what degree we hold. :uhoh3:

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Should a bachelors degree be required for all RNs?

YES!!!

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Yes...a BSN should be entry level for RN's.

With a grandfather clause for those RN's now I must add. I'd like to see Federal funding to help diploma and AD courses merge with BSN programs.

Many nurses do not agree, but I feel strongly BSN entry level will help RN's unite.

I also like Canada's stacked program...one is a LPN after first year or so and can choose to go on, but BSN is the only RN degree and is required. They also grandfathered their diploma and AD nurses, rightfully so.

I cannot support forcing RN's to return to school...that stinks of a money grab and a racket. (and this is how I see BSN programs treating AD and diploma nurses now who go back, refusing to accept credits, etc) Its wrong.

I usually love your view on everything but disappointed in you on this one...

If you support the BSN minimun requirement, it's still a racket for those who are now LVN's and those who are not yet RN's with whatever they are doing now.

As a former LVN, I applied at many RN schools who did not want to grant credit for previous coursework for a multitude of excuses..."That course does not meet our requirments" or "that course is not RN level.." What a crock!!

I'm now an ADN RN who sailed through ICU internship due to my previous LVN experience and now orient/precept new RN's, ADN and BSN alike.

And you know what?

It's what they did prior to being an RN, not the degree, that makes the difference.

I will support the BSN requirement for RN's when I finally see BSN schools churn out quality RN's that clearly set them apart from ADN's and diploma RN's.

At the present, I fail to see the BSN schools churn out any more than any other entry level RN. They graduate just like any new ADN's....not a clue as to what they are doing.

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I just want to know where in Canada there is "a stacked programe" with one year LPN training with the option to go on to RN!

The province I trained in has the LPN over four semesters. I did it in thirteen long hard months. They are in the process of changing it to a two year diploma.

The LPN-RN bridge was only introduced in the last couple of years. Many provinces require a certain amount of work experience to get into the bridge programme. There is also a long waiting list for the vital course of LPN-RN transition.

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I am an (nursing home) ASN nurse and believe NO ONE should be allowed to touch a pill without at least a BSN. I work with LPN's and ASN's. None of them can even spell. My DON had to ask a doc what rhonchi was because she was reading my charting and hadn't a clue. Odor is always spelled "ODER" and "legs real swolled up" is a common term for 3+ pitting edema to both lower extremities. Personally I refuse to let most nurses come close enough to me to check my pulse. It is because of the lack of educational requirements that nurses have such a bad name. MOST nurses are just room temperature IQ, used-to-live-in-a-dumpster, got-five-kids nitwits who went to a tech school for 10 months and are now hovering over you looking for a vein (or bone) to stick an IV in.

SCARY! Another suggestion I have is making the NCLEX harder. If you have to study for the NCLEX, you probably shouldn't be walking around with that needle in your hand. And put away the stethoscope if you don't even know what you're looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I myself am totally incompetent. Unfortunately, many nurses are even worse.

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Kristen, you take my breath away.

If your co-workers are that poorly trained, I hope never to need medical help in your state.

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I am an (nursing home) ASN nurse and believe NO ONE should be allowed to touch a pill without at least a BSN. I work with LPN's and ASN's. None of them can even spell. My DON had to ask a doc what rhonchi was because she was reading my charting and hadn't a clue. Odor is always spelled "ODER" and "legs real swolled up" is a common term for 3+ pitting edema to both lower extremities. Personally I refuse to let most nurses come close enough to me to check my pulse. It is because of the lack of educational requirements that nurses have such a bad name. MOST nurses are just room temperature IQ, used-to-live-in-a-dumpster, got-five-kids nitwits who went to a tech school for 10 months and are now hovering over you looking for a vein (or bone) to stick an IV in.

SCARY! Another suggestion I have is making the NCLEX harder. If you have to study for the NCLEX, you probably shouldn't be walking around with that needle in your hand. And put away the stethoscope if you don't even know what you're looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I myself am totally incompetent. Unfortunately, many nurses are even worse.

Kristen,

all i can say is WOW. How are you an ASN nurse and you say that you believe you need a BSN to pass meds?

That is pathetic if that is the quality of ASN nurses your state is turning out, but that definately gives all of us ASN nurses a bad name. If you can't spell in my ASN program you will be weeded out. I agree with you that some nurses I wouldn't trust and I don't know how they got through nursing school, but I don't think I would say "most".

Hopefully that doesn't make you believe that all ASN nurses are incompetent, and I still don't believe you need a BSN to be competent. What like 2 extra years of "leadership" classes are going to make you a better RN? Sorry, I am going back for my BSN and MSN, but I won't ever look down on ASN nurses

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