I have friends who are both in traditional ADN and BSN nursing programs. The question came up about "which program is harder". As I told my friends who are in ADN programs (who I hope are still my friends ) I just feel that BSN programs are harder.
Why? I totally understand that both programs have students who may hold a previous degree, worked in the medical field (or not), volunteer experience and so on. I also understand that academically, both groups of students will have their own strengths and weaknesses.
I know that ADN and BSN program admission criteria can be different depending upon city/state/area. I am well aware both programs have clinicals, Care Plans/concept maps, exams, tests, quizzes, ATI/HESI questions/prep that have to be completed/passed etc. Both groups sit for the same state boards.
HOWEVER: The amount of papers, projects, presentations, and research BSN programs are REQUIRED to do, goes well beyond what is required out of an ADN program. Just think about it. In the ADN program, you might have a paper or assignment on "professional ethics". Yeah ummmmm, but a BSN program will have that same topic, as a course for an entire semester.
NO: I am not saying BSN graduates are smarter than ADN/diploma. Yes, I understand the additional classes are the difference between the two. I don't mean to offend anybody, but I just can't help but feel this way......
When my friends who are in ADN programs complain about "how hard" and "how much work", they have to do, I assure them things will be okay. While on the inside I really want to say "Is it really?"......
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I'm personally not a fan of a MSN degree that does not have a focus; doesn't make sense.
I totally agree with you. The point of the MSN degree is specialization.
While nursing education, leadership and the APRN roles (midwifery, clinical nurse specialist, nurse practitioner and CRNA) might be the most common MSN specializations, others exist as well. There's case management, infection control, holistic nursing, nursing informatics and other less common specializations. However, I see little point in obtaining a generic MSN degree with no specialty.
I understand your point. The level of difficulty in a class will be different for all. You are right, both programs have to take the same nclex. Even worse, to be paid the same amount as a new grad who came from an adn program, I think is not fair.
I ONLY say this because I feel that if a person goes to school longer, and earns a higher degree, should be paid more regardless of the profession.
As Esme12 posted, there should be one level of entry. I agree. I think there would be more respect for the field as a profession, and would end the msn better than bsn, bsn better than adn, and adn is better than lpn, etc debate.
Why should you be paid more? What MORE can you offer that a ADN cannot? Both BSN and ADN new grads are new grad nurses that know about a fourth of an inch of nursing knowledge. New grads are not in any position to be demanding higher salaries or wages.
I am of the opinion that all those extra BSN courses will come MORE in handy WITH clinical experience as an RN.
Another way to really look at a BSN program is that it's a Nursing program grafted into a Bachelor of Science core...
That is exactly what a BSN program is. At the University of Washington, students who already have their BA/BS can take an Accelerated BSN program which is basically the ADN program.
That said, I did find courses at the university more rigorous than courses at a community college. (I had to retake chemistry and biology because my credits were way too old.) However, that could be the result of overall changes in the level of high school education or the particular schools I attended. As GrnTea points out, the kind of data we're discussing has no statistical significance.
I agree with Esme12. Bottom line is let's support and supplement each other. Cat fights about who has it harder don't seem to have much relevance. I kinda like the "work smarter, not harder" approach myself.
So we are talking about 1.5 full time semesters of full time credit hours. It took me 3 years to gain my ADN, that is with going full time during the summer as well. I really don't see a big difference anymore. maybe we should rethink the original argument. Three years of schooling and it only cost me a little under 4000.00 out of pocket. I think I got a good deal.
That's why I'm getting an ADN degree instead of replicating my BS degree. The difference in time and money is staggering. I realize that we all have different goals and resources, though, and that the considerations of career changers might be very different from those of traditional students.
In my area, the CC did not include summers for the ADN, so in essence, it would be four years; It ends up being the same amount if time for the ADN and BSN, unless the program had preceptorships built in.
The CC credits are just as expensive as the four year colleges; in essence, paying 10 grand more for a BSN was money I would have to spend if I decided to go for an ADN, for me, it didn't make sense, including not having the flexibility to find a job1my area is BSN-preferred,
It was certainly worth the money to get the BSN.
Wow, either your BSN was cheap or the CC are way over priced in your area!
Wow, either your BSN was cheap or the CC are way over priced in your area!
My CC rates have gone significantly up to the point that grants don't cover anymore, even more so for science classes and nursing classes; then again, I'm in a university-rich area.
The best thing I did was get my pre-req's done at the CC then focused on my nursing credits at the university level; I saved tons of money on my nursing education.
Just can't leave this topic alone. But I did want to pass some information along that I found out after reading your post. At the time I didn't care how many credit hours I took during school, I just took the classes I needed to graduate and a few that would set me up for my BSN.
For my program we were required to complete 67.5 hour to graduate and sit for the NCLEX. To get into the program though we had to have 27 hours of pre requisites that included math, science, psych, and nutrition courses. I also took 6 extra credit hours that I figured I would need for my BSN. So I graduated with 100.5 credit hours. My question is, for the BSN program do they include the prerequisites in the 120 credit hour tally? If they do then the differences in credit hours are not nearly as big as you may think. I would really like to know about this.
Also, it is true that not everyone with a higher degree earns more. My wife has a masters degree in elementary education, has worked at the same school for 10 years, and she is mad because I will nearly make twice what she makes as a new nurse with no experience. I plan on getting her a big diamond ring that we never had the money for when we got married, she will get over it.
I too had to take additional credits. Yes prereqs are included, but here is the difference: I didn't know adn programs were required to take 2 semesters of a language, statistics, some even required college algebra or another higher level math, organic chemistry, religion, developmental/lifespan psych. The organic chemistry alone had prerequisites itself. I know different programs will have different requirements.
I'm not discounting the additional classes you had to take. I've lived that part as well
Why should you be paid more? What MORE can you offer that a ADN cannot? Both BSN and ADN new grads are new grad nurses that know about a fourth of an inch of nursing knowledge. New grads are not in any position to be demanding higher salaries or wages.
I am of the opinion that all those extra BSN courses will come MORE in handy WITH clinical experience as an
What more can I offer than an adn?
Ask the hospitals. Clearly things have changed. This is why there are so many BSN REQUIRED requirements in job postings. They (hospitals) think bsn holders offer more. In my area that is
Now do I agree? No. Both are licensed. I was just making the point of getting more money for more education. Unfortunately more education/higher degree doesn't mean more money for educators & social workers.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
There are good programs and bad programs for both ADN and BSN. You cannot have 2 different entry level RN NCLEX. What a nightmare that would be......and until nursing makes a decision one way or another....this is what you have to deal with...period.
I know of ADN programs that require that require advanced algebra, micro, 2 years of high school language or 2 semesters of college language, and psychology.
The ADN program we looked at for my daughter ended up being 3 years long. One year of prerequisites of anatomy&physiology (2 semesters), advanced math/calculus or physics, psychology, nutrition and micro before being allowed into the nursing part of the program. THey had an agreement with another college to automatically bridge to the RN-BSN program at another good school. That program without books uniforms and fees was $48,000.00 for 3 years. Then an additional $14,000.00 for the RN-BSN bridge. They were 32 for passing state boards. My daughter's BSN program (4 years) is $32,000.00 and is in the top 5 for passing state boards.
What my daughters program will give her is also a bachelors in liberal arts graduating with a double major.
The choice was simple for her.
As a new grad should she be paid more? No...she is a new grad. But in our area the BSN will get hired over the ADN. MANY of the new grad residencies are BSN only. Our choice was simple.
MANY are on waiting lists for 2 or 3 years. Be happy and celebrate that you were accepted to a program. Don't bemoan the fact that you have a few extra classes. Be happy you will have the leg up in the long run.
I am unclear why you continue to be upset? ((HUGS))
I'm trying to understand why someone would come into a forum and basically put down the people who are going to be her colleagues one day. Who cares as long as we pass the NCLEX? Seriously, the only thing you will have done more than me is a few prereq hours. So you wrote a few extra papers? I can write 10 page papers in my sleep and get A's on them. The core program is the same and we all have a min. number of clinical hours to do.
This debate is crazy and I understand why your friends are mad at you. We all have our reasons for doing what we do and it is not your job to judge. Focus on yourself and not what everyone else is doing. I think it was wrong to come in here and say what you did. Sometimes you need to keep your opinion to yourself. This would be one of those times.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
StudentOfHealing;8029573]Why should you be paid more? What MORE can you offer that a ADN cannot? Both BSN and ADN new grads are new grad nurses that know about a fourth of an inch of nursing knowledge. New grads are not in any position to be demanding higher salaries or wages.
I am of the opinion that all those extra BSN courses will come MORE in handy WITH clinical experience as an
What more can I offer than an adn?
Ask the hospitals. Clearly things have changed. This is why there are so many BSN REQUIRED requirements in job postings. They (hospitals) think bsn holders offer more. In my area that is
Now do I agree? No. Both are licensed. I was just making the point of getting more money for more education. Unfortunately more education/higher degree doesn't mean more money for educators & social workers.
There are plenty of new grads from good programs that are working at prestigious universities in extensive orientation programs. It is about the candidate and not always about the degree. There are still parts of the country that the BSN is not strictly preferred.
Your clinical portion of your BSN is just as long as the ADN. 2 years. Same amount of clinical hours. Same requirements.
You will get more money for more education. If you go for your masters. When you get your certifications in your area of specialty. You will get more money because very possibly your friends will find it difficult to find a job or will get a job in a setting that they don't want....be happy and for each other. But to constantly tell your friends how you are superior in your education and deserve more is not the way to foster good friendships or be a good friend.
What exactly are you looking for? Do you want to hear that you are better than ADN nurses because you've written more papers than I have and have taken a research class? I think the only one who is caught up on that is you. I've busted my a$$ in my ADN program and had the same prereqs that the BSN programs in my area require. At the end of the day, we will start out making the same amount per hour. The only difference is you will just have more debt to pay off.
) I just feel that BSN programs are harder.
...and until nursing makes a decision one way or another....this is what you have to deal with...period.
TheCommuter, BSN, RN
102 Articles; 27,612 Posts
While nursing education, leadership and the APRN roles (midwifery, clinical nurse specialist, nurse practitioner and CRNA) might be the most common MSN specializations, others exist as well. There's case management, infection control, holistic nursing, nursing informatics and other less common specializations. However, I see little point in obtaining a generic MSN degree with no specialty.