I have friends who are both in traditional ADN and BSN nursing programs. The question came up about "which program is harder". As I told my friends who are in ADN programs (who I hope are still my friends ) I just feel that BSN programs are harder.
Why? I totally understand that both programs have students who may hold a previous degree, worked in the medical field (or not), volunteer experience and so on. I also understand that academically, both groups of students will have their own strengths and weaknesses.
I know that ADN and BSN program admission criteria can be different depending upon city/state/area. I am well aware both programs have clinicals, Care Plans/concept maps, exams, tests, quizzes, ATI/HESI questions/prep that have to be completed/passed etc. Both groups sit for the same state boards.
HOWEVER: The amount of papers, projects, presentations, and research BSN programs are REQUIRED to do, goes well beyond what is required out of an ADN program. Just think about it. In the ADN program, you might have a paper or assignment on "professional ethics". Yeah ummmmm, but a BSN program will have that same topic, as a course for an entire semester.
NO: I am not saying BSN graduates are smarter than ADN/diploma. Yes, I understand the additional classes are the difference between the two. I don't mean to offend anybody, but I just can't help but feel this way......
When my friends who are in ADN programs complain about "how hard" and "how much work", they have to do, I assure them things will be okay. While on the inside I really want to say "Is it really?"......
Ultimately the example you stated about the nursing ethics does not prove the point you are making. That example only proves that BSN programs are longer in length than ADN programs, not the difficulty. Not only that you make great generalizations about both ADN and BSN programs that will not fit a standard sample size, but may fit the singular experience that you have acquired.
The ADN program I graduated from had a tremendous workload with papers, clinicals, labs, simulations, testing days, and classroom lectures but the funny thing is I never saw any of it as hard. Stressful at times and always busy, but the notion of difficulty was never there. Sure sometimes concepts were difficult to grasp, but after study and practice it was much clearer without the feelings of overwhelming difficulty.
We had papers to do, many in fact especially the final semester. The first month we had 3 papers due every other week on various subjects decided upon by the nursing staff., This was beyond the normal classwork, NCLEX practice questions, and all the other tasks to complete. The topic was set, but we had to research and find EBP articles that would prove or disprove our thesis. I can go on and on, but you will never hear me talk about how hard it is. It was busy, pure and simple.
Questions like this often come from a view of elitism, "I did so much more than you, which makes me so much better than you." The overall tone of your post doesn't fit that point of view so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and wish your post sparks further discussion. But I will go on record stating that continually comparing ADN and BSN programs does nothing for the nursing profession. Even though I am pursuing my BSN degree right now, I graduated with a ADN and have the same rights, responsibilities, and pride in my work as any BSN nursing graduate.
I find this an interesting topic, mainly because I was surprised that my ADN program classes are few. I'm on campus twice a week, for 3 hours. That's it. I have Lab for 3 hours monday, and lecture for 3 hours on tuesday, plus a "nursing success" class for an hour on tuesdays. That's it. I was rather shocked by this because the LPN program has Lecture monday's from 9am - 3pm and lab on tuesdays from 8:30am - 12:30pm. I'm litterally floored that the ADN program has LESS class time and less lecture time than the LPN program. Maybe it's because they have to learn material in less time allowed to them. The LPN program here is just 2 semesters with a summer session and you're done.
However, I don't think time in class can equate to how hard something is. IMO the less time you have in lecture or in lab, the more time you need to spend studying on your own to learn the material rather than to be taught it, which would make it more difficult.
I don't think either of them are any less hard... but I do think a BSN is only more difficult, in that it requires more work from you, but not nursing work. It's more theory work. And it's only more difficult, because this requirement is fulfilled along side the nursing portion of the program. The BSN contains all that the ADN has, all the difficult parts that are nursing and fundamentals plus more theory and extra gen ed. classes.
I think another problem is that the topic is coming off as if "BSN is hard, so ADN is easy", when neither is the truth. By telling people that "My BSN is harder because I am WORKING for it" means what about an ADN program? That is isn't just as hard? That they're not working for it? That's hogwash.
I'd love to get a few RN to BSN's to chime in to tell us which part of the program they felt was more difficult. The ADN, or the BSN.
The point you made about more theory work being fulfilled along side the nursing portion of the program is what makes it more difficult, is exactly what I meant. There are moments I WISHED all I had to do was study for nursing core classes. A semester of only peds/maternity class, or med surge 1/pharm for example, without 3 or 4 other research classes/busywork classes would be awesome.
I understand nursing school is difficult regardless if you entered in through a direct entry msn program, Accelerated BSN, traditional bsn or adn program.
Statements made for either position would depend on the individual program at any given point in time. An ASN program in my area had a reputation of being one of the roughest in the state, but graduates fared well in the job market. The nearest BSN program was known as being somewhat of a joke. But the graduates sat for the same RN boards and came away with a BSN. Most students applied to all available programs and took what they could get, something like it is today. Not many have had the luxury of picking and choosing among programs, using any kind of criteria. When you apply to six programs and get accepted at one, you attend the one that accepts you.
What is hard for me may be easy for you, and vice versa. Like the only thing that I've found really "hard" about my ABSN program is how fast the pace is, and especially the lack of breaks between semester. Some people might find that this makes the program easier because the lack of breaks means they don't lose momentum between semesters, etc.
Who cares what program is harder because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is that giant test we all have to pass...Regardless if your program was "easy" or "hard".
Ultimately the example you stated about the nursing ethics does not prove the point you are making. That example only proves that BSN programs are longer in length than ADN programs, not the difficulty. Not only that you make great generalizations about both ADN and BSN programs that will not fit a standard sample size, but may fit the singular experience that you have acquired.
The ADN program I graduated from had a tremendous workload with papers, clinicals, labs, simulations, testing days, and classroom lectures but the funny thing is I never saw any of it as hard. Stressful at times and always busy, but the notion of difficulty was never there. Sure sometimes concepts were difficult to grasp, but after study and practice it was much clearer without the feelings of overwhelming difficulty.
We had papers to do, many in fact especially the final semester. The first month we had 3 papers due every other week on various subjects decided upon by the nursing staff., This was beyond the normal classwork, NCLEX practice questions, and all the other tasks to complete. The topic was set, but we had to research and find EBP articles that would prove or disprove our thesis. I can go on and on, but you will never hear me talk about how hard it is. It was busy, pure and simple.
Questions like this often come from a view of elitism, "I did so much more than you, which makes me so much better than you." The overall tone of your post doesn't fit that point of view so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and wish your post sparks further discussion. But I will go on record stating that continually comparing ADN and BSN programs does nothing for the nursing profession. Even though I am pursuing my BSN degree right now, I graduated with a ADN and have the same rights, responsibilities, and pride in my work as any BSN nursing graduate.
I used the ethics class as an example. I could have easily posted a list of all the other theory classes that are required from my program that are to be completed alongside the nursing core classes.
No elitism here. However, my dad has always told me, "The more you know, the more you are worth". So much for that. Upon graduation, I will make the same as someone who holds the same license as me, but with less "nursing/theory" education.
It is unfair to compare the two degrees. To say one is harder than the other is incorrect. Many different factors go into the programs and it is only fair to say whether each individual program is harder than another.
Nursing program A? Requires a 85% to get a C but they give you a comprehensive study guide that the teacher makes up before the test and all tests are multiple choice. They curve the test to ensure that a minimum of 75% of the class passes. They also get 25% of the grade from other sources such as papers and discussion boards.
Nursing program B? Requires a 77% to pass but they do not give a study guide. Any material covered through talking, power points, assigned reading, and books is considered fair game. Even the tiny boxes in the chapter. The teacher uses a test bank to make up the test. They do not drop questions or curve the tests at all. If no one passes, then no one passes. There are 4 tests and an ATI that make up the grade and that is it.
Which one is harder? Can you tell me which one is the BSN and the ADN? No. But you can see which one is harder. Not to mention that the instructors themselves can make a class 10 times harder depending on their style.
Simply saying that you have to do more paperwork then the ADN does not make it harder. One could argue that you get more opportunities to earn points and to pad your grade. You could also argue that you are taking more classes which would allow you to pad your GPA.
I ONLY say this because I feel that if a person goes to school longer, and earns a higher degree, should be paid more regardless of the profession.
As Esme12 posted, there should be one level of entry. I agree. I think there would be more respect for the field as a profession, and would end the msn better than bsn, bsn better than adn, and adn is better than lpn, etc debate.
That is called degree inflation and is not better for the profession overall.
No elitism here. However, my dad has always told me, "The more you know, the more you are worth". So much for that. Upon graduation, I will make the same as someone who holds the same license as me, but with less "nursing/theory" education.
Plus they may have saved more money in the process by taking out fewer school loans and then getting their employer to pay for their RN to BSN education.
I would venture to guess that this is more program specific. Our local ADN program is much tougher than the local BSN program. Most people in the program are taking other courses besides nursing to prep for transfer to a RN-BSN program. But aside from that the ADN program requires more clinical hours, and has a higher standard for passing than the BSN program. In the end we all sit for the same exam, we just take different paths. I don't think its a matter of one being harder than another. I barely had a chance to breath, yet my BSN counterparts seem to have plenty of free time.
Statements made for either position would depend on the individual program at any given point in time. An ASN program in my area had a reputation of being one of the roughest in the state, but graduates fared well in the job market. The nearest BSN program was known as being somewhat of a joke. But the graduates sat for the same RN boards and came away with a BSN. Most students applied to all available programs and took what they could get, something like it is today. Not many have had the luxury of picking and choosing among programs, using any kind of criteria. When you apply to six programs and get accepted at one, you attend the one that accepts you.
I would have went to an associate program too if that was the only one that accepted me. If I could do it all over again, I would have applied to the adn programs. I got caught up in the "bsn is better", that was constantly heard from the nurses on my unit.
When my friends who are in adn programs complain about "how hard" and "how much work", they have to do, I assure them things will be okay. While on the inside I really want to say "Is it really?"......
Does anyone else feel this way?
Spend a week or two with me and my life and my ADN Program and then you can tell me the BSN is harder. Until you've done both, you don't know. Just because I'm not taking an ethics class (or research class or whatever) doesn't mean my program is easy.
I used the ethics class as an example. I could have easily posted a list of all the other theory classes that are required from my program that are to be completed alongside the nursing core classes.
No elitism here. However, my dad has always told me, "The more you know, the more you are worth". So much for that. Upon graduation, I will make the same as someone who holds the same license as me, but with less "nursing/theory" education.
Once again you make generalizations that may not fit all nursing programs. I have to say that no matter what theory class you point out, the end result will be the same. To assume I didn't get the same nursing theory that you will have once you get there is fairly short sided. I am hoping that the extra year of schooling might broaden your view on the profession.
The money that is made after graduation isn't always based on degree a person graduated with. Hate to say it, but I make more than the average entry level nurse, including BSN students. I was scouted out of school and was offered more than current nurses walking the same floor I am walking. So in your eyes the injustice continues. Sorry.
) I just feel that BSN programs are harder.
.......
rob4546, BSN, MSN
1,027 Posts
Ultimately the example you stated about the nursing ethics does not prove the point you are making. That example only proves that BSN programs are longer in length than ADN programs, not the difficulty. Not only that you make great generalizations about both ADN and BSN programs that will not fit a standard sample size, but may fit the singular experience that you have acquired.
The ADN program I graduated from had a tremendous workload with papers, clinicals, labs, simulations, testing days, and classroom lectures but the funny thing is I never saw any of it as hard. Stressful at times and always busy, but the notion of difficulty was never there. Sure sometimes concepts were difficult to grasp, but after study and practice it was much clearer without the feelings of overwhelming difficulty.
We had papers to do, many in fact especially the final semester. The first month we had 3 papers due every other week on various subjects decided upon by the nursing staff., This was beyond the normal classwork, NCLEX practice questions, and all the other tasks to complete. The topic was set, but we had to research and find EBP articles that would prove or disprove our thesis. I can go on and on, but you will never hear me talk about how hard it is. It was busy, pure and simple.
Questions like this often come from a view of elitism, "I did so much more than you, which makes me so much better than you." The overall tone of your post doesn't fit that point of view so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and wish your post sparks further discussion. But I will go on record stating that continually comparing ADN and BSN programs does nothing for the nursing profession. Even though I am pursuing my BSN degree right now, I graduated with a ADN and have the same rights, responsibilities, and pride in my work as any BSN nursing graduate.