BON and alleged verbal abuse via pt

Published

I'm in a bit of a predicament. I work on a ventilation unit. There's a very large female resident on ventilation. Somewhat young. Alert and oriented. Just started speaking today. Wednesday she claims I said something about a number regarding her weight as in "7 people in 1" or maybe it was like "5 people in 1". I don't really know. I don't remember saying anything about it. That day and that event that happened allegedly, me and an LPN were trying to reposition her. When she was first admitted, we had 4 CNAs at all times when it came to things like changing her, repositioning, bed bath, etc. A few days later she all of a sudden went down to 2 CNAs. I understand I can't just pout and disagree with it, but to me it's a safety issue if there's 2 CNAs when doing something with her to get comfortable instead of 4. I think she's like beyond 400 lbs. I told the LPN like 4 times "I want more help" or "I want 3 people or 4 people" both in front of her, and outside her room. The LPN I worked with that run is energetic and motivated. He's a cool dude, but pressed for time. He kind of just blew it off and instead tried to encourage me to pull her up with him, both of us on opposite ends. I was irritated, but I can't recall myself ever saying anything about her weight. I don't see why I even would considering it has no importance to my job. Tonight, an hour or two before the end of my shift and before her mother left, I was escorted outside as house sup, mother, and lead CNA all talked about it and off the property as there will be an investigation Monday. I don't know what will happen, but I did document 4 pages worth of my side. She was able to speak today and she says I did in fact say something that hinted at her being big, but I don't see why I would because that's just straight rude. I apologized to both her and her mom when they were in there together. The mom didn't want to write a report, but the daughter (patient) did. Now the ombudsman is going to come in and investigate. Am I 100% guaranteed to lose my job and license even though I don't remember saying anything like that? Or could both sides (state and facility) say ok we'll let it slide once, but that's it? I've always been nice to her whether her mom was there or not, always greeted her, always had no issue with helping others who interacted with her like a nurse or CNA. I never turn down a request for help if someone needs it, except financially. Me and the LPN that were in that room were involved and we're both going to be investigated. Also, could this affect me going into nursing school? I was told by my house supervisor who is a really good RN that this could ban me from working in the healthcare field period, but I don't know if that's a little exaggerating. Also, I was told in CNA school that I think in Nevada, if you mess up in one area of certification so bad you can never hold that title, that it won't affect other titles. I'm not trying to intentionally get fired or lose my certification, but it took two days for the pt to find somebody to report it, but I can't remember ever saying it. What I documented I did remember doing and would do in a scenario that needed it, but I never mentioned that I said something to point at her weight because why would I? I took my test for nursing school and I might get accepted, why would I want to go downhill?

I think the pt needs to accept reality. Weighing more than 400# makes her morbidly obese. Her doctor would be doing her a huge favor to get her on a strict weight loss diet now, assuming a dietician would be involved to make sure she got sufficient protein, fats, vits, minerals, carbs, etc.. She is probably at least 250 # overweight.

And having to roll, pull, etc. people like that is why direct care nurses and aides have back damage. Why doesn't the facility have enough staff (what a stupid question) and mechanical devices to deal with people like this woman?

Let this be a lesson in what not to say in a pt's hearing. I wish you all the best, OP.

On 5/11/2019 at 2:18 AM, Beldar_the_Cenobite said:

I'm in a bit of a predicament. I work on a ventilation unit. There's a very large female resident on ventilation. Somewhat young. Alert and oriented. Just started speaking today. Wednesday she claims I said something about a number regarding her weight as in "7 people in 1" or maybe it was like "5 people in 1". I don't really know. I don't remember saying anything about it. That day and that event that happened allegedly, me and an LPN were trying to reposition her. When she was first admitted, we had 4 CNAs at all times when it came to things like changing her, repositioning, bed bath, etc. A few days later she all of a sudden went down to 2 CNAs. I understand I can't just pout and disagree with it, but to me it's a safety issue if there's 2 CNAs when doing something with her to get comfortable instead of 4. I think she's like beyond 400 lbs. I told the LPN like 4 times "I want more help" or "I want 3 people or 4 people" both in front of her, and outside her room. The LPN I worked with that run is energetic and motivated. He's a cool dude, but pressed for time. He kind of just blew it off and instead tried to encourage me to pull her up with him, both of us on opposite ends. I was irritated, but I can't recall myself ever saying anything about her weight. I don't see why I even would considering it has no importance to my job. Tonight, an hour or two before the end of my shift and before her mother left, I was escorted outside as house sup, mother, and lead CNA all talked about it and off the property as there will be an investigation Monday. I don't know what will happen, but I did document 4 pages worth of my side. She was able to speak today and she says I did in fact say something that hinted at her being big, but I don't see why I would because that's just straight rude. I apologized to both her and her mom when they were in there together. The mom didn't want to write a report, but the daughter (patient) did. Now the ombudsman is going to come in and investigate. Am I 100% guaranteed to lose my job and license even though I don't remember saying anything like that? Or could both sides (state and facility) say ok we'll let it slide once, but that's it? I've always been nice to her whether her mom was there or not, always greeted her, always had no issue with helping others who interacted with her like a nurse or CNA. I never turn down a request for help if someone needs it, except financially. Me and the LPN that were in that room were involved and we're both going to be investigated. Also, could this affect me going into nursing school? I was told by my house supervisor who is a really good RN that this could ban me from working in the healthcare field period, but I don't know if that's a little exaggerating. Also, I was told in CNA school that I think in Nevada, if you mess up in one area of certification so bad you can never hold that title, that it won't affect other titles. I'm not trying to intentionally get fired or lose my certification, but it took two days for the pt to find somebody to report it, but I can't remember ever saying it. What I documented I did remember doing and would do in a scenario that needed it, but I never mentioned that I said something to point at her weight because why would I? I took my test for nursing school and I might get accepted, why would I want to go downhill?

You need to learn to say as little as possible. Four pages in your response? Way too much opportunity to hang yourself.

Learn it right now. Say as little as possible.

Maybe you could report your facility to Medicare and Medicaid and your state and federal senators and congressmen/women for not providing enough staff or mechanical devices for basic safety measures for both staff and morbidly obese patients.

What do you mean "opposite ends"? Just curious.

What exactly did you apologize for? What did you say in your apology?

A small English lesson, wanted or not - It's not "me and the LPN". It's "the LPN and I". Me wasn't involved. I was involved. Sorry, this is just scary to me. Schools apparently do not teach proper English any more. You will stand out from the crowd if you can speak it and write it correctly.

Also, is it "like" whatever? Or is it just plain whatever? No need for "like" in either of the instances you used it. Yes, just my old fogey ways again. Thanks for hearing me out.

Specializes in Surgical, Home Infusions, HVU, PCU, Neuro.

Paragraphs are a wonderful way to break down your post and make the reading flow smoothly.

4 pages is way too excessive for a response, you should only stick to what you remember and make objective and not subjective statements.

I don't believe apologizing was necessarily wrong if it was completed in an appropriate manner. Example, " I apologize if I said or did something that offended you and will be more cautious on my wording in the future to avoid misunderstandings."

This is pretty detailed. I would consider removing the post. Unless you want hippa issue as well...

1 hour ago, xanderx said:

This is pretty detailed. I would consider removing the post. Unless you want hippa issue as well...

What about the post is detailed? Location, names of facility, name of patient, etc, is not mentioned, therefore, nothing is being violated.

Say there are three instances across the nation of a CNA receiving a complaint concerning offending a 400 lb pt that are recent. It can be narrowed down to you because of your previous posts. A reasonably interested party can easily look up your postings and find more to complain about you. Is every employee there your “friend”? Don’t count on it. They don’t even have to dislike you to talk about you and stuff gets to the wrong ears. Surely you have read about healthcare workers losing their jobs over what they post online. How much would it take for TPTB at your facility to just decide to can you? And yes, if this gets around it could even affect you in nursing school. Stranger things have happened. The nursing world is a small one and nobody can protect Beldar’s back like Beldar.

On 5/11/2019 at 5:31 PM, Pixie.RN said:

This right here is excessive. Not surprised that the patient was offended.

You already have a target on your back at your job with the recent issues with your van and being on private property after hours. You are probably done there.

What's the backstory on this?

Beldar has posted extensively about living in his van and getting admonished by mgmt at his facility for parking two vehicles in the facility parking lot when he is not on duty. That is primarily why he is so identifiable.

Just now, caliotter3 said:

Beldar has posted extensively about living in his van and getting admonished by mgmt at his facility for parking two vehicles in the facility parking lot when he is not on duty. That is primarily why he is so identifiable.

Wow! Is there a financial issue? Why not sell one vehicle and use the money for housing? And why park both at your place of employment? There's a lot going on with Beldar huh?

High maintenance employees often find themselves on the outside looking in. Never talk about your inability to keep a roof over your head to an employer.

3 minutes ago, caliotter3 said:

High maintenance employees often find themselves on the outside looking in. Never talk about your inability to keep a roof over your head to an employer.

Agreed.

9 hours ago, Kooky Korky said:

In what way do you see unclear, irrational thinikig? Not disagreeing, just not understanding.

I think they are just being snarky.

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