It is becoming increasingly obvious that the roles of an RN and LPN are blurring into one another.
My question is: Should we eliminate this distinction altogether? If so, by what means? We could eliminate the LPN program, so that every nurse would be an RN. We could combine the two titles and come up with an entirely new generation of nurses, that are considered equal in the public and medical eye.
not sure if this is universal and a "rule" but here in NY LPNs can't take verbal orders........curious as to if that is everywhere.[/quote
Not in my state either,as a matter of fact, the last place I worked, LPNs could only do assessments if they were signed off by the RN,so they were usually delegated to being the med nurse.This was in an acute care psych unit and the hospital I work at now does not use LPNS on our floor.However, there is a great difference when it turns to long term care facilities; one of my younger sisters is DON of the nsg home she works in.
not sure if this is universal and a "rule" but here in NY LPNs can't take verbal orders........curious as to if that is everywhere.[/quote
Not in my state either,as a matter of fact, the last place I worked, LPNs could only do assessments if they were signed off by the RN,so they were usually delegated to being the med nurse.This was in an acute care psych unit and the hospital I work at now does not use LPNS on our floor.However, there is a great difference when it turns to long term care facilities; one of my younger sisters is DON of the nsg home she works in.
No, it is not universal and I work in a hospital. If you read the many threads of not only this one but others you will realize how different our ability to practice is. It varies not only from state to state but institution to institution. There are some always things such as RN only hangs blood and does the first 10-15 min assessment after blood is hung. The later part has only recently this year changed, prior LPN/s could do that . It is very important that not only LPN stay ontop of changes but also the RN's.
I know I've met many an LPN who gripes that they do "almost everything" an RN does but get paid so much less and that it's not fair.
Well at my facility they would be correct. They can do everything except the intial assessment and initiate restraint/seclusions. Thats all and they get paid $15 an hour less than RNs. I'm sorry but to me that is just taking advantage. I will always be appreciative of the more indepth knowledge I gained as I worked toward my ADN but when you take into account the many years of experience the LPNs I work with have I'm not going to pat myself on the back too hard for those extra couple of semesters. Just my
I see lots of times the RN delegates to the lpn things that used to be done by the RN. Walking rounds with the Dr. Working on care plans. Rn's get upset when a new wound is discovered and they to have to come to view and assess.
Many lpn's feel proud of their ability to handle all these things, but I wonder if we are just working out of our scope and sometimes getting patted on the back for doing their job.
I have an idea, instead of lowering the standards, make undergraduate nursing in the USA a 4 yr degree. One kind of RN, period, no so called blurred boundries etc. If you dont like what a RN does then go to MA school.
I have an idea, instead of lowering the standards, make undergraduate nursing in the USA a 4 yr degree. One kind of RN, period, no so called blurred boundries etc. If you dont like what a RN does then go to MA school.
I do not believe in lowering the standards of nursing. I do believe in being allowed to work to my full Scope of Practice. so I guess I say nuts to your idea, unless of course you mean all RN's have to have a 4 year degree.
I will let the RN's argue or agree with that point. I just wish to work as an LPN as I have for the past 30 years and continue for the next 13 years until I retire.
It's so difficult. If there was only one type of nurse (RN's) it would make my life a LOT easier because I wouldnt be running around for all the LPN's to do their pushes. They dont help with my work when I do their pushes. When i'm doing an admission of one of their patients they are not helping me with my patients. I think LPN's should be able to do the same things as an RN. In other words they should become RN's.
ejsn, I think you should ask the LPN's to help you while you are doing things for the patient .
I am happy we are not as restricted where I work, however when I do need to have an RN do something for me . In return I always ask them if they need help with something.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
It's so difficult. If there was only one type of nurse (RN's) it would make my life a LOT easier because I wouldnt be running around for all the LPN's to do their pushes. They dont help with my work when I do their pushes. When i'm doing an admission of one of their patients they are not helping me with my patients. I think LPN's should be able to do the same things as an RN. In other words they should become RN's.
ejsn, I think you should ask the LPN's to help you while you are doing things for the patient .
I am happy we are not as restricted where I work, however when I do need to have an RN do something for me . In return I always ask them if they need help with something.
I agree with your statement, lpnflorida; review the policy and procedures of the facility and see what the LPNs can, in fact, do. But one arguement I have with your statement, EJSRN; do you feel the same way about nursing assistants? They are not licensed to do any nursing procedures; they are delegated and the RN is ultimately responsible for the outcomes of their tasks, while an LPN does, in fact, have a license of her own, and is responsible for her/his own practice. I understand your frustration, but to say that we should do the same as an RN would mean that we have to be compensated monetarily the same as the RN. It makes no sense to me to ask someone that has less education, theory and money than you to do what you do. In addition, it is harder to enter into RN programs in many places, so, people applied, graduated and work as LPNs to at least be in the arena. Are you saying that we don't deserve to be employed? Not fair, to me, sorry.
Where I work, we have some weird rules that limit LPNs, but many of us try to work around it. If there is something that I am not allowed to do, I do as much as I can legally do, even work around some of it, in order to assist the RNs, so that all they have to do is focus on the RN-specific tasks. I work in a clinic, and depending on the clinic, there are some things I cannot do. An example of this is that we can't administer Rhogam in OB/GYN. I may not do that, but, I counsel the patient on what it is, why it is being administered, can order the drug, sign off with her and do all of the other teaching and medication administration necessary, so, all she has to do is administer that med. When working on the floors, I can't push certain medications, but, I do get them out for them, give the rest of the meds and save a few steps, as well as do what I am allowed to do when an admission comes. Would you rather have a CNA that can only do bedbaths and fingersticks (not degrading CNAs, mind you all), or a medication aide that has no real legal responsibility towards the outcomes of that administration?
I'll be the first to admit that many of the mentioned situations that RNs encounter are the reasons why I will NOT go for registered nursing. For me, it is too much responsibility for things that are out of their control and I never felt it was fair to assume that just because a person is a registered nurse that they can be thrust into these horrible situations where they can easily sink. But, we can do what we can to make what exists work. It is not the fault of the LPN that these impossible to follow rules exist, but it doesn't mean that we have to feel in the way because we are trying to make an honest living as well.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
No, it is not universal and I work in a hospital. If you read the many threads of not only this one but others you will realize how different our ability to practice is. It varies not only from state to state but institution to institution. There are some always things such as RN only hangs blood and does the first 10-15 min assessment after blood is hung. The later part has only recently this year changed, prior LPN/s could do that . It is very important that not only LPN stay ontop of changes but also the RN's.
It is important that both disciplines of nursing stay abreast of what is happening with our scopes of practice; both with the state and within the facilities. Many times, I have had to carry the BONs scope of practice with me when I work per diem in order not to be drawn into something that can cause problems later. The bottom line is that LPNs have earned their license as well, and the unfortunate thing is that while we can have empathy for our RN counterparts, crossing the lines too deeply can be damaging to the license of the LPN.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Just my two cents...I think LPN should be a 2 year degree (like the Associate's RN is now) and RNs should all be BSNs going forth. Then the distinctions might be super clear.
How so? Now, you have a 2 year associate degree LPN whose scope of practice may still be limited, and then, a BSN, who is the Registered Nurse? Then, where does the scope of practice change? We have ASNs now that practice the same as BSNs? Still...the same confusion.
I agree with your statement, lpnflorida; review the policy and procedures of the facility and see what the LPNs can, in fact, do. But one arguement I have with your statement, EJSRN; do you feel the same way about nursing assistants? They are not licensed to do any nursing procedures; they are delegated and the RN is ultimately responsible for the outcomes of their tasks, while an LPN does, in fact, have a license of her own, and is responsible for her/his own practice. I understand your frustration, but to say that we should do the same as an RN would mean that we have to be compensated monetarily the same as the RN. It makes no sense to me to ask someone that has less education, theory and money than you to do what you do. In addition, it is harder to enter into RN programs in many places, so, people applied, graduated and work as LPNs to at least be in the arena. Are you saying that we don't deserve to be employed? Not fair, to me, sorry.
Where I work, we have some weird rules that limit LPNs, but many of us try to work around it. If there is something that I am not allowed to do, I do as much as I can legally do, even work around some of it, in order to assist the RNs, so that all they have to do is focus on the RN-specific tasks. I work in a clinic, and depending on the clinic, there are some things I cannot do. An example of this is that we can't administer Rhogam in OB/GYN. I may not do that, but, I counsel the patient on what it is, why it is being administered, can order the drug, sign off with her and do all of the other teaching and medication administration necessary, so, all she has to do is administer that med. When working on the floors, I can't push certain medications, but, I do get them out for them, give the rest of the meds and save a few steps, as well as do what I am allowed to do when an admission comes. Would you rather have a CNA that can only do bedbaths and fingersticks (not degrading CNAs, mind you all), or a medication aide that has no real legal responsibility towards the outcomes of that administration?
I'll be the first to admit that many of the mentioned situations that RNs encounter are the reasons why I will NOT go for registered nursing. For me, it is too much responsibility for things that are out of their control and I never felt it was fair to assume that just because a person is a registered nurse that they can be thrust into these horrible situations where they can easily sink. But, we can do what we can to make what exists work. It is not the fault of the LPN that these impossible to follow rules exist, but it doesn't mean that we have to feel in the way because we are trying to make an honest living as well.
Please Do Not put words in my mouth. I never said you dont deserve to be employed. I feel that there should be less or no LPN schools and all RN schools. There are LPN's that are much smarter and have much more experience than me, and I learn from them all day long. Dont you think its sad that they make so much less than an RN. In the nursing homes LPN's do almost the same exact thing as an RN. So No Proud2bLPN I am not degrading you, just think you should be rewarded a bit more for what you do. Its a couple more months of school.
whodunit
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