Blood alcohol with patients refusing

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:twocents: I am interested in finding out your policy regarding drawing blood alcohol for law enforcement when the patient is refusing. Starting January 1 my state has changed the law regarding refusal of blood alcohol testing. When Law enforcement finds certain situations the subject is not allowed to refuse blood alcohol testing. The New law states that the law enforcement official may use resonable force to produce the specimen. The law also covers the nurse from legal or civil penalty, unless their is negligence in the care. What are your policies on this matter, are you drawing or not???????

Thanks

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Specializes in Hospice / Psych / RNAC.

In my state it is an automatic conviction if the person does not submit ... I was led to believe it was like this in many states.

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Specializes in Emergency Medicine.

Because of chain if custody issues and procedural requirements in obtaining a legal specimen nurses do not draw blood for law enforcement. The lab sends a tech to do it.

Also, many of these cases attack the chain of custody and it's a good bet someone will wind up in court. It's cheaper for the hospital for the court to subpoena the lab tech than pay a nurse to go.

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In my state it is an automatic conviction if the person does not submit ... I was led to believe it was like this in many states.

That is our current legal position. However after Jan 1 that is changing so we are trying to decide what our position should be

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Because of chain if custody issues and procedural requirements in obtaining a legal specimen nurses do not draw blood for law enforcement. The lab sends a tech to do it.

Also, many of these cases attack the chain of custody and it's a good bet someone will wind up in court. It's cheaper for the hospital for the court to subpoena the lab tech than pay a nurse to go.

Ditto.....:)

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Specializes in ER/ICU/STICU.

We can't force them to submit, but refusal is automatically guilty. I had a cop tell me that sometimes it is cheaper and less severe consequences if someone refuses then if the actually submit a specimen if they are that drunk.

On a side note, I can't imagine this law will stay in effect very long. I think once on organization like the ACLU gets wind of the government forcing people to have their blood drawn against their will, it will be game over.

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Specializes in ER/Trauma.

In TN there are limited instances where blood draw is mandatory such as death or severe injuries involved. Even then, the police have to have an outside contractor come draw the blood for chain of custody issues. The hospital stays out of it.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Home Health.

In some places, the police draw the blood.

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Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.

This varies from state to state, and I imagine if your state legislature has changed the law regarding this, your hospital will have to find a way to comply.

My state does not force obtaining a blood specimen - it just triggers an automatic conviction - but I'm aware of other states where force can and is used to complete this process.

Which state is this?

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Specializes in Emergency Dept, ICU.

If I had a picture of a dead horse here I would post it and then beat it. These laws are different state by state so checking with your local legislature is going to be your best bet.

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Specializes in Emergency Dept, ICU.
In TN there are limited instances where blood draw is mandatory such as death or severe injuries involved. Even then, the police have to have an outside contractor come draw the blood for chain of custody issues. The hospital stays out of it.

I have drawn multiple specimens for TN law enforcement officers during crash investigation deaths. My chain of custody has never been questioned by the courts. I live in Nashville.

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Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.
Because of chain if custody issues and procedural requirements in obtaining a legal specimen nurses do not draw blood for law enforcement. The lab sends a tech to do it.

Also, many of these cases attack the chain of custody and it's a good bet someone will wind up in court. It's cheaper for the hospital for the court to subpoena the lab tech than pay a nurse to go.

I disagree. I have worked in hospitals where nurses/ER techs drew blood for legal blood draws. As long as it is properly documented there is not a problem.

Some defense attorneys automatically subpoena the person who drew the blood -- I've been subpoenaed 9 times. Only once did I have to go to court (complicated case - not posting the details here) and I still did not have to testify. The other 8 times I simply responded to the subpoena by calling the number of the DA's office listed on the subpoena, describing who I was and what case I was referring to ... and told that I would not be needed.

But testifying would consist of:

Did you perform venipuncture/draw blood from Defendant? Yes.

What type of skin prep was used? Povidone Iodine.

What did you do with the specimens? Blood was drawn in the presence of Officer X from XYZ police department and specimens were handed to him/her ... or hand delivered by me to the Lab Staff Person X at XYZ hospital.

End of testimony.

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