Best way to ask out a patient

[bossfrog]

Okay, I know many are about to jump on here and say, "NO!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!" but first, hear me out.

First, let me be clear that I have NOT acted unprofessionally in any way in this situation. Now, let me give you the scenario:

I'm a 24 yo single male staff nurse in my third year. For the last 4 days, I've been caring for a 20 yo female patient with viral pneumonia. She expressed to me that she was feeling very alone because she's a college student and her parents live more than 1000 miles away and she has no family in the area.

So, naturally, I made a point as part of her care plan to visit her whenever possible so that she might not feel so alone. Well, she clearly likes to talk. I would pretty much simply say hello and ask how she's feeling and she just talks and talks, even with the pneumonia! I actually haven't disclosed a whole lot about myself, certainly no more than I would to any other patient, but in my conversations with her, it is absolutely amazing how much she and I have in common. She has the most infectious smile.

In the last two days, it's becoming apparent that she may have a similar interest in me. A couple other nurses on my wing have told me that she's been asking when I'll be around. Also yesterday she felt the need to tell me about her past relationships with guys and how they never seemed to care much about anything but themselves and how she hasn't dated anyone since last winter.... you know, the typical "Hey, I'm available, hint, hint" discussion. I'm about 80% sure that she's hoping I'll ask her out just by the hints she's dropping.

Now before I go further, let me make it known that yes, I've had several other young female patients before, a couple of whom I must admit were probably more attractive than this young lady. And yes, I know about the concept of transference. And I'm experienced enough to understand and feel the typical nurse/patient connection that develops. This isn't that.

Now, back on track. I have NEVER expressed these feelings toward her in any overt way, or even to my co-workers. I have not given her undue time that I wouldn't give to another patient. She doesn't even know for sure that I'm single, unless another nurse has told her that, which I doubt.

I've decided that if all possible, I'd like to ask this girl out AFTER she is discharged either Friday or Saturday, but I'm not sure what my options are. I could either say in my last visit with her, that it would be nice to talk to her again some time, but I don't think that's the right approach. Should I talk it over with our ethics adviser? She's very busy and that just doesn't seem like the right way to go either. Writing down her phone number from her records and calling her after discharge certainly wouldn't be ethical.

Another possibility is that I am most likely to be the one to wheel her to the exit on her discharge. Perhaps that might be the right time to speak to her briefly about possibly getting together for coffee or something, because as soon as she gets out of that chair, she's technically not my patient anymore. The last possibility is to not say anything and instead look her up at her school some time next week. That might be the best option.

I just don't want to be thinking back saying "what-if" 20 years from now. You just don't get a lot of chances at happiness and after dating plenty of girls, I just have a strong feeling she might be the one for me. Either way, I've got to find out. Thanks for reading.

[CRNATOB]

Exactly! I don't think it matters how they run into each other or if they wait a week. Dating a recent patient is dating a recent patient. It's not a co-worker's patient that you dropped a water pticher off with and then ran into later in life. It's YOUR patient you developed feelings for, continued to participate in hands on assessments and care; and then continued to accept into your shift assignment! I think it's ethically questionable, and not cute or romantic.

First off, I already said I'll probably wait a week or two before calling her. Second, the only feelings I have toward her are that of a friend, and one worth getting to know better. I already said I don't know if there's anything there or not, but you don't know unless you find out. Apparently, she thinks the same thing. If all that ever happens is that I gain a close friend, that's great! I like friends, don't you? If there is something more, then that's great too.

[CRNATOB]

I said it was disturbing and preying on a girl's (no matter if she is plain or hot) vulnerabilities.

And I find your accusation that I'm a predator to be GROSSLY insulting and confrontational.

I feel passionately about maintaining a therapeutic relationship where when can put the patient's best interest first, and once you have the desire to form a personal relationship

Just because you can't maintain that distinction doesn't mean others can't. None of the other nurses I work with approached me with any kind of concerns regarding my conduct, and trust me... at least a couple of them are NOT shy about criticizing. I'm sorry that you feel that a nurse can't befriend a patient. There's nothing that says nurses must remain cold and distant.

[Mary C, MSN, RN, APRN, CNM]

I'm a 24 yo single male staff nurse in my third year. For the last 4 days, I've been caring for a 20 yo female patient with viral pneumonia. She expressed to me that she was feeling very alone because she's a college student and her parents live more than 1000 miles away and she has no family in the area.

Another possibility is that I am most likely to be the one to wheel her to the exit on her discharge. Perhaps that might be the right time to speak to her briefly about possibly getting together for coffee or something, because as soon as she gets out of that chair, she's technically not my patient anymore. The last possibility is to not say anything and instead look her up at her school some time next week. That might be the best option.

She's alone and you're planning how to ask her out; yet you have no intentions and could maintain clear boundaries and priorities? You haven't been unprofessional or ethically questionable, even though before she was discharged, you are requesting advice on how to proceed with a relationship?

OP, I like friends. I love friends. I surround myself with them. I am never cold and distant with my patients. I just don't feel the need to come home at night from patient care and solicit help in planning how to take a professional relationship to a different level.

You've rationalized this relationship to yourself. My further posting will do nothing but receive indignant, defensive posts. I apologize for any inflammatory wording, but a huge part of me thought that this had to be a joke. I can't beleive that this would even occur in our profession.

Thank you for ALL of your thoughtful and passionate replies, and I will hopefully have a warmer, fuzzier conversation with some of you on a different thread.

Signing off :typing

[GilaRRT]

This is very hard for me to understand. When I become ill and go into the hospital, I would hope people would be professional and refrain from taking advantage of me while in such a state. Has anybody here been ill? Would you consider your self a rational person in complete control of you life when you stuck in a hospital bed? Perhaps some people are; however, many of us are vulnerable and will require our health care providers to provide us with a safe therapeutic environment.

There are lines we should not cross as professionals. All of this romantic soul mate stuff is simply the stuff of Hallmark television drama. I dated a girl in high school who I was sure was my soul mate. Did not work out, no big surprise there. We need to look past irrational emotions and realize we are professionals and owe it to our patient not to engage in such behavior.

[ToxicShock]

Wow! Talk about drama... OP, you're clearly going to do whatever you want so good luck with that. Hope it works out. In the future, it might be a good idea to not ask for advice when you have already made up your mind.

If you don't want to risk inflammatory responses, don't post on the internet. Anonymity allows people to be ******** much more freely; hasn't being a Gen Xer taught you anything?

[Diary/Dairy, RN]

Nurses use professional judgment in determining the acceptable boundaries of a therapeutic relationship with each client. It is always the nurse who is responsible for establishing and maintaining appropriate boundaries.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3916/is_/ai_n8937730

http://nursesrev.advocateoffice.com/vertical/Sites/%7B41671038-B8D0-4277-90A9-50B10F730CBD%7D/uploads/%7BB5D0F837-455E-4E4B-95B4-DE8F7CD808C6%7D.PDF

Nursing boundaries, first addressed by Florence Nightingale, are referred to in the “Nightingale Pledge” used in pinning ceremonies throughout our country. Passages such as ”I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous…maintain and elevate the standard of my profession…will hold in confidence matters committed to my keeping…in the practice of my calling…and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care” all refer to standards or boundaries relating to our duties and responsibilities as nurses.1

http://www.nursingcenter.com/prodev/ce_article.asp?tid=696139

You have made your choice already.... but You are crossing a boundary that it is YOUR responsibility to keep. Your patient is vulnerable and while it is admirable to want to support her... she has a life and you are not involved in it...

I have seen the MESS healthcare professionals make of their own lives by crossing that line... and the havoc it makes with the other professionals in their work environment... think VERY carefully before you cross that line and be prepared to deal with the mess you make.....

[CRNATOB]

This is very hard for me to understand. When I become ill and go into the hospital, I would hope people would be professional and refrain from taking advantage of me while in such a state.

Nobody has taken advantage of ANYBODY in this context. SHE handed me her number. I had no intention of asking for it! In case it didn't dawn on you, the OP should have made it abundantly clear that I could think of no ethical way to maintain and grow my friendship with this person after her discharge and perhaps see if down the road there might be something else there.

If I were in fact some kind of unethical, predatory stalker like some on here want to paint me, then I wouldn't have made the post to begin with, now would I? The very fact that I was asking about an ethical way to proceed (IF one existed) is evidence in itself of my own moral compass! Luckily, she was interested in staying in contact with me as well and it worked out. Now, as I said, I'm going to wait a week or two before calling her. If I wasn't concerned about ethics, wouldn't I just call her immediately?

[CRNATOB]

You have made your choice already.... but You are crossing a boundary that it is YOUR responsibility to keep. Your patient is vulnerable and while it is admirable to want to support her... she has a life and you are not involved in it...

NOT true! I already said repeatedly on here that I NEVER treated her any differently than I would have treated ANYONE else. Absolutely NO LINE was crossed with her under my care and I take exception to the very allegation! Whether you believe me or not has absolutely no bearing on the truth of the matter.

She is NOT my patient anymore, and SHE has very much made it clear that there very well might be a place for me in her life by the fact that she gave me her phone # OF HER OWN FREE WILL. Whether that place is as a friend or something more remains to be seen, but since she is no longer a patient, I am ethically free to find out. For you to say otherwise is facetious.

[Diary/Dairy, RN]

You might think you treated her like anyone else... but you are hardly a unbiased opinion at this point......

As for when the nurse-client relationships end..... I was told no less than 6 months in school.... I am sure if you looked, there would be a multitude of information about this..... One week is nothing.

[PMHNP10]

Nobody has taken advantage of ANYBODY in this context. SHE handed me her number. I had no intention of asking for it! In case it didn't dawn on you, the OP should have made it abundantly clear that I could think of no ethical way to maintain and grow my friendship with this person after her discharge and perhaps see if down the road there might be something else there.

If I were in fact some kind of unethical, predatory stalker like some on here want to paint me, then I wouldn't have made the post to begin with, now would I? The very fact that I was asking about an ethical way to proceed (IF one existed) is evidence in itself of my own moral compass! Luckily, she was interested in staying in contact with me as well and it worked out. Now, as I said, I'm going to wait a week or two before calling her. If I wasn't concerned about ethics, wouldn't I just call her immediately?

So I ask again, given that you think it's ethical to date a recent patient you provided care for, how is it that if you ask it is not ethical, but her asking makes it ok? I truly don't see how shifting around who asked who changes the ethics in this situation.

[GilaRRT]

Nobody has taken advantage of ANYBODY in this context. SHE handed me her number. I had no intention of asking for it! In case it didn't dawn on you, the OP should have made it abundantly clear that I could think of no ethical way to maintain and grow my friendship with this person after her discharge and perhaps see if down the road there might be something else there.

If I were in fact some kind of unethical, predatory stalker like some on here want to paint me, then I wouldn't have made the post to begin with, now would I? The very fact that I was asking about an ethical way to proceed (IF one existed) is evidence in itself of my own moral compass! Luckily, she was interested in staying in contact with me as well and it worked out. Now, as I said, I'm going to wait a week or two before calling her. If I wasn't concerned about ethics, wouldn't I just call her immediately?

You could throw the number away and refrain from contact at this point? She handed you her number; however, what you choose to do now that you have the said number is the crux of this discussion.

Again, your both adults; however, this could end quite badly for both parties.

[Diary/Dairy, RN]

Why? What's it matter? Is posting on my brother's account some kind of morally deplorable thing to do? It's not like I did it without his permission. I mean come on. This is the INTERNET here.... the final frontier... the Wild West! LOL

No, but having more than one account is a clear violation of the terms of service and will get you banned.......