I've noticed that schools have different selection processes to determine who will be admitted into nursing programs because there are too few openings to accommodate all that apply. So far I've heard of a lottery system, a lottery system with a minimum point requirement and TEAS score, and also I've heard of straight competitive based systems.
What do you think is the most fair and what do you think is the best for the nursing profession?
I've often thought that it must be very hard to sit on a selection committee.
Body language is 80% of all communication and him being quiet isn't the issue, but if you saw how this guy dressed and how he acted, you would come up with the same conclusion.
My age isn't important...when you have posted a bit longer on here, you will be well aware of my age.
While body language may be a large part of communication, it like all other forms, is open to interpretation. I know that even my husband and I can look at a person and jump to two entirely different conclusions - in most cases both of us being wrong. I've done that one too many times and now try to get to know a person a little bit before making any decisions regarding their characters - You might be missing out on a lot of wonderful people and personalities by making snap judgements like the one you made about this guy.
I know I don't post much (I'm a lurker;-p) so I'll probably get zinged for commenting, but just my .02...
Body language is 80% of all communication and him being quiet isn't the issue, but if you saw how this guy dressed and how he acted, you would come up with the same conclusion.
Based on your description it sounds like he might be somewhat autistic, of course that's a shot in the dark with very little real data to back it up. I just think that rather than label him a lunatic all the many possible and more benign alternatives should be explored.
80% of all communication may be body language, but 80% of all handicaps may be social stigma, prejudice, fear, and misunderstanding.
Has anyone reached out to him and tried to understand him better and maybe get him some help? He's probably living a very lonely life, which may only be compounding whatever pre-existing problems he already has.
Again, you may be right, he may just be a lunatic, but judging by what you wrote it sounds like he is being written off and ostracized when perhaps he could benefit from at least the attempt at understanding and help.
Based on your description it sounds like he might be somewhat autistic, of course that's a shot in the dark with very little real data to back it up. I just think that rather than label him a lunatic all the many possible and more benign alternatives should be explored.
80% of all communication may be body language, but 80% of all handicaps may be social stigma, prejudice, fear, and misunderstanding.
Has anyone reached out to him and tried to understand him better and maybe get him some help? He's probably living a very lonely life, which may only be compounding whatever pre-existing problems he already has.
Again, you may be right, he may just be a lunatic, but judging by what you wrote it sounds like he is being written off and ostracized when perhaps he could benefit from at least the attempt at understanding and help.
For sake of privacy, I'll call this guy "Mark".
Whenever you are partnered with him, he sort of stands about 4 feet away and watches while you work. When you look at him to ask him to help (translation: Don't just stand there and do nothing), he won't lift a finger without you instructing him on every single move.
As soon as you are done, instead of following the other students back toward the nurses station so we can wait for further instruction, he just finds a spot at the end of the hall and just stands there alone.
Anytime you try to get his attention, it's, "Mark....Mark...Mark.".
We used to think it was a hearing problem, but it's not..he only does this in clinical.
If you ask him to go get something, someone always has to go and check on him and mysteriously, you never can find him, and sometimes you'll find him "observing" in another room.
You get the picture?
As far as his appearance, he always walks around with a fixed smile on his face (when nothing amusing is happening, and it appears 'fixed' no genuine), and walks everywhere almost in slow motion and speaks in a monotone.
We have all tried (in the beginning) to include him in conversations, get him to talk, ask him about his wife, etc...and you are lucky if you get more than a single word in response.
He's sort of like Lurch on the Adam's family...I know that sounds awful...but I can't think of a movie or anything that has a character to describe his demeanor.
When someone just flat out doesn't respond to anything...to me, that doesn't really ring as "normal".
I have zero experience directly with anyone that is autistic, so Lord knows I wouldn't know if that is the issue or not.
When someone just flat out doesn't respond to anything...to me, that doesn't really ring as "normal".
I have zero experience directly with anyone that is autistic, so Lord knows I wouldn't know if that is the issue or not.
"normal" is a setting on the dryer....it doesn't apply to people. It sounds like what you're speaking about is all about social skills. A lack of social skills still doesn't indicate that he's going to shoot up the place.
I'm not trying to argue his normalcy, just his stigmatization.
It's pointless to try to diagnose his problem in this forum. It became an issue here due to the attitude which was reflected in your post, which i'm sure is shared by many other students and perhaps faculty at your school. That attitude struck me as rather blatantly unhelpful, which is not to imply that help would automatically result from a change in attitude, just that it couldn't hurt.
Whatever his problem might be, it only becomes your problem when and if it effects your safety or job performance, or has the potential to do so. You have already expressed your concern that that may be the case, so it seems to me that instead of writing him off as a weirdo and being afraid and worried when you're around him, the best chance for a positive result all around is to suspend your prejudice and address your concerns in a sober and professional manner to someone who might be in a position to render him some genuine help.
In theory I don't see that grades should be the indicator who's going to be a good nurse. In reality, I see that the students in my class who don't get good grades, or those who have flunked out, have been the ones who in clinical exhibit the type of behavior that will result in bad grades too.
Usually a good work ethic, confidence, appropriateness (related to grades-evaluating what's important to study,etc.), and critical thinking skills will lead to good grades. It's pretty clear cut and obvious in my class.
In my clinical there was a student who was so genuine and so nice. Also extemely inappropriate. If, as a group, we were missing someone, it was her. She could be found anywhere-but usually in the room with the "nicest" patient, or with a family member with a small child visiting. She was sweet, but didn't get her own work done, had no boundaries, and was extremely needy. She ended up being dismissed from the program, and most people would say what a shame because of her caring nature.
Nursing is a profession, though, and not volunteer work where the nicest one in the room is the best suited. Sure, we should all be nice, but nursing is demanding, and we need high standards (like those expected of medical students, etc.) if we want the respect that we deserve. Grades are a basic guage for likelihood of dedication, etc. Not everything, but a pretty good indicator, I'd say.
I'm not trying to argue his normalcy, just his stigmatization.
It's pointless to try to diagnose his problem in this forum. It became an issue here due to the attitude which was reflected in your post, which i'm sure is shared by many other students and perhaps faculty at your school. That attitude struck me as rather blatantly unhelpful, which is not to imply that help would automatically result from a change in attitude, just that it couldn't hurt.
Whatever his problem might be, it only becomes your problem when and if it effects your safety or job performance, or has the potential to do so. You have already expressed your concern that that may be the case, so it seems to me that instead of writing him off as a weirdo and being afraid and worried when you're around him, the best chance for a positive result all around is to suspend your prejudice and address your concerns in a sober and professional manner to someone who might be in a position to render him some genuine help.
His stigma is that he's lazy and would rather watch than learn. He's learning the hard way that being a nurse isn't just about passing classes, that God forbid you might have to touch someone and speak too them in the process.
My point is that had our school had an interview...these types of people can be weeded out. He got through clinicals by the skin of his teeth, but he has been told very clearly, either he steps up to the plate or this Fall will be his last semester....A's in theory or not.
It's not my job to fix personality styles in students. This guy is married, he is an adult, he is in his early 30's...and the instructors are well aware of the situation.
We tried to talk to him, include him, but he spends more of his time figuring out how not to do things, than being proactive and finding tasks to do.
Sorry if it's politically incorrect, but the guy is weird, he scares people with his demeanor, and if he does that to us, and we work with him every day....
...has anyone considered how his patients would feel?
I believe that the job of an admission committee is to admit people who will be successful in the academic program. There is no objective measure of who will be a "good nurse" (and define "good nurse" - does he/she work in psych, or ER, or LTC, or for an insurance company?), so the school should strive to admit people who will graduate. Grades and test scores don't paint the entire picture, but should definitely play a role. If someone barely gets Cs in all their prereqs (at 70%), how are they going to pass nursing courses where they're held to a higher standard? That being said, I don't like how my school admits people either. They look ONLY at GPA, and there is no weight given to number of credits or types of courses taken. An A in Intro to underwater basket weaving or Tennis is worth the same as an A in O Chem. People with a prior BS are held to the same standard (if applying to the traditional program) as students who have only completed 2 years of intro level college courses. There is also no way to rectify past bad grades, since they don't weigh recent coursework more heavily. It would be nice to call qualified applicants based on test scores, college/workforce experience, and GPA and schedule an interview for the top 20% or so of applicants. All that costs money though, and lack of funds is the primary reason my school only looks at GPA.
In theory I don't see that grades should be the indicator who's going to be a good nurse. .
the thing is, schools are not in the business of deciding who will make a good nurse. they are in the business of educating students and seeing that they succeed in passing boards. therefore, grades and academic success will need to continue to be the staple of the application process. i agree with you that previous grades are a great indicator of future success.
His stigma is that he's lazy and would rather watch than learn. He's learning the hard way that being a nurse isn't just about passing classes, that God forbid you might have to touch someone and speak too them in the process.
My point is that had our school had an interview...these types of people can be weeded out. He got through clinicals by the skin of his teeth, but he has been told very clearly, either he steps up to the plate or this Fall will be his last semester....A's in theory or not.
It's not my job to fix personality styles in students. This guy is married, he is an adult, he is in his early 30's...and the instructors are well aware of the situation.
We tried to talk to him, include him, but he spends more of his time figuring out how not to do things, than being proactive and finding tasks to do.
Sorry if it's politically incorrect, but the guy is weird, he scares people with his demeanor, and if he does that to us, and we work with him every day....
...has anyone considered how his patients would feel?
It may or may not be appropriate to drop him from the program, but I think it's definitely appropriate to drop him from this thread:yeah:
(speaking of dropping, maybe he was dropped on his h....oh never mind).
I mentioned in an earlier post that NS itself is a kind of screening process. It sounds like that process may become applicable in this case.
But, back on topic, of all the criteria for admission i've read about in this thread, it seems to me the point system is the most fair since it allows those who excel in a particular area to be rewarded for it, and those who mess up in a particular area to compensate for it.
heartnurse2be
15 Posts
While body language may be a large part of communication, it like all other forms, is open to interpretation. I know that even my husband and I can look at a person and jump to two entirely different conclusions - in most cases both of us being wrong. I've done that one too many times and now try to get to know a person a little bit before making any decisions regarding their characters - You might be missing out on a lot of wonderful people and personalities by making snap judgements like the one you made about this guy.
I know I don't post much (I'm a lurker;-p) so I'll probably get zinged for commenting, but just my .02...