I've noticed that schools have different selection processes to determine who will be admitted into nursing programs because there are too few openings to accommodate all that apply. So far I've heard of a lottery system, a lottery system with a minimum point requirement and TEAS score, and also I've heard of straight competitive based systems.
What do you think is the most fair and what do you think is the best for the nursing profession?
I've often thought that it must be very hard to sit on a selection committee.
Personally I do think that GPA and the entrance exams are a good indicator of how a person will do in the actual program. I'm definitely not in favor of the schools that allow students to re-take pre-reqs numerous times to advance their grades so I think that should be considered and gpa points deducted. I would definitely give extra points for working CNAs.
IMO the basics of success in actually getting a nursing degree and being able to practice are the ability to pass the nursing courses and NCLEX. FWIW the students in my program that had problems passing the exams were the same ones barely getting Cs each semester and many of them just weren't devoting the time necessary.
Students need to be well rounded and that includes being able to pass tests. If a student is really bad in clinicals that is an issue to be taken up there and they can be failed from that portion. I also have seen students that were good with the patients but personally if I was the patient I'd rather a bright nurse that knew her stuff but wasn't so personable over a really nice one who doesn't fully understand the pathophysiology of my disease.
We have a guy in our class who is a braniac. Near perfect scores on every exam. However, he doesnt speak unless spoken too, walks in a slow pace, and he makes you wonder who he is going to go out and shoot one day. He is very, very scary.....he does horrible in clinicals and it's like pulling teeth to get him to do anything. Nobody likes working with him.
who are you to judge him? just b/c he is quiet and doesnt speak to people a lot does not mean he is going to go off shooting people.
i had a guy in my class the same as you described and he is one of the nicest guys out there. hes just really quiet and shy until he warms up to you.
in fact, im the same as you described. i'm also SNA president, class president, graduating in December with my BSN with honors, and i'm on numerous school committees. however, i'm quiet b/c i've got so much going on that i'm constantly thinking about something, i'm slow (why rush?), i have many many guns, have my handgun permit so i carry my glock, and look at guns on the internet so i just might shoot someone.
why judge someone that, i almost guarantee, you dont know anything about?
how old are you anyway? you sound very young by that post
I'd rather a bright nurse that knew her stuff but wasn't so personable over a really nice one who doesn't fully understand the pathophysiology of my disease.
well said! i concur 100% and thats why i believe grades > personality/bedside stuff. the person can be as nice as possible and treat patients great but if they do not know how/why/when for what they are doing then they are a danger to the patient
I think it's difficult or impossible to really tell who would make a good nurse whether the criteria be grades or essays or tests or any other rubric. Besides, what's the definition of a 'good nurse'; without that what would you actually be measuring against?
Even if such a rubric could be found, it negates the fundamental reality that people can learn, develop, and grow. If everyone entering NS had to be fully qualified from day one it would be a huge and pessimistic denial of everyone's potential.
Yet the need to screen exists due to the shortage of academic resources and the need to avoid wasting them on those who would clearly not be able to complete the program.
These facts lead to the conclusion that NS screening should not be based on who would make the 'best nurse', since determining that is inherently ambiguous, inaccurate, unfair, and practically impossible, but on who can most likely complete the program successfully, which means some kind of academic criteria is the only practical and least unfair measure. I say least unfair because random variables exist even in the objective measure of academic performance. Everyone knows there are 'easy' and 'hard' teachers even at the same school and in the same course. That alone could be the difference between a C and an A.
NS itself is a screening process, as everyone here knows. I think being too strict and inflexible during the screening process is a big mistake. A certain level of academic performance is absolutely necessary. After that people should be allowed to judge for themselves whether or not they would make a good nurse, given the chance to learn and grow if that is necessary, and given the choice of loving it or hating it after seeing it first hand.
I value nursing programs which view a candidate from a holistic point of view, where the strong performance of a candidate in one or more areas can supplement areas where they may have previously shown weaknesses.
BSN programs may spend the time and energy selecting their students by this method, perhaps because they have a larger staff and greater financial resources to undertake this type of admissions process.
Unfortunately, the reality is that that many programs offer less comprehensive admission processes and leave much to be desired. I am not in favor of any type of lottery implementation, however the fact that they exist at the CC level with such prevalence is a reality that doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon.
I had to overcome a poor GPA associated with my previous BA degree several years ago. The fact that the schools I applied to evaluated cumulative GPA, core science GPA, volunteer experience involving direct patient care, leadership experience, a written personal statement as well as an interview, helped me recover from a weakness with my previous GPA.
Many people argue that those with families, who work full-time, or have other personal obligations cannot spend the time improving their application with volunteer work (or exposure to areas of nursing they might be interested in working in). However, IMO, nursing programs which give the applicant to demonstrate their desire and commitment to nursing study in many different areas are far better than those which look at a numerical GPA value on paper or choose randomly from an applicant pool.
NS itself is a screening process, as everyone here knows. I think being too strict and inflexible during the screening process is a big mistake. A certain level of academic performance is absolutely necessary. After that people should be allowed to judge for themselves whether or not they would make a good nurse, given the chance to learn and grow if that is necessary, and given the choice of loving it or hating it after seeing it first hand.
I agree 100% and in a world where we had an abundance of nursing instructors and spaces in the programs this would be ideal and probably put out the best of the best.
That is not the reality today so they have to be "strict and inflexible" in hopes of graduating the largest number that will be successful with NCLEX the first time and despite all the competition to get in and hard work necessary to graduate I am appalled at the number of people who still have to take the NCLEX over and over.
That is not the reality today so they have to be "strict and inflexible" in hopes of graduating the largest number that will be successful with NCLEX the first time and despite all the competition to get in and hard work necessary to graduate I am appalled at the number of people who still have to take the NCLEX over and over.
You're right. After I wrote that I realized it wouldn't really solve anything, since there still would be (are) more academically qualified applicants than there are seats to accommodate them.
I guess my focus on fairness to the individual doesn't scale up very well when there are too many individuals to be fair to.
In order to find out what attributes are important to a qualified applicant, there would need to be some research. There really is no "Quick Fix" at this point. The reality is that nursing schools have been using the same methods and procedures for over 50 years, it is a hard system to change and it will take serious measures to get it changed. My mother went through the same problems that we have gone through getting accepted to NS, and she was in NS in the early 70's. I think that it is an issue that no one wants to touch with a 10 foot pole!
I am trying to stay optimistic that there will be a Nursing Revaluation that will bring some much needed change to the systems. It may happen in my lifetime and it may not. I will for sure be advocating for change in my nursing career!
who are you to judge him? just b/c he is quiet and doesnt speak to people a lot does not mean he is going to go off shooting people.
i had a guy in my class the same as you described and he is one of the nicest guys out there. hes just really quiet and shy until he warms up to you.
in fact, im the same as you described. i'm also SNA president, class president, graduating in December with my BSN with honors, and i'm on numerous school committees. however, i'm quiet b/c i've got so much going on that i'm constantly thinking about something, i'm slow (why rush?), i have many many guns, have my handgun permit so i carry my glock, and look at guns on the internet so i just might shoot someone.
why judge someone that, i almost guarantee, you dont know anything about?
how old are you anyway? you sound very young by that post
Body language is 80% of all communication and him being quiet isn't the issue, but if you saw how this guy dressed and how he acted, you would come up with the same conclusion.
I don't go around asking people if he owns guns or not, but considering I live in a rural area with avid hunters, you would be hard-pressed to find someone that didn't own one, including myself.
I come to the same conclusion as most of the class b/c he can barely function in clinical. He has been told over and over again that he has to open his mouth and SPEAK to patients as that is part of the assessment.
My age isn't important...when you have posted a bit longer on here, you will be well aware of my age.
I believe that the GPA and entrance test are the best way to determine who gets in and who doesn't. If they do allow a lottery, then it should be the people that meet a reasonable GPA and entrance test score, not just because they've been waiting for XX years. I do think the the GPA and entrance test scores are the best indication of how a student will perform in nursing school.
My concern with an essay would be discrimination. Sure I could tell them that I'm a working mother of 3 kids trying to better my life and my family's. But then when they have me sitting next to a single adult with no children and the same grades and test score, who's to say they won't choose her over me because of the extra baggage that I carry? It's happened to me at my current employer (though it's next to impossible to prove). So if I were to write an essay, I would not include much personal information...as little as possible to answer the question.
Body language is 80% of all communication and him being quiet isn't the issue, but if you saw how this guy dressed and how he acted, you would come up with the same conclusion.
I don't go around asking people if he owns guns or not, but considering I live in a rural area with avid hunters, you would be hard-pressed to find someone that didn't own one, including myself.
I come to the same conclusion as most of the class b/c he can barely function in clinical. He has been told over and over again that he has to open his mouth and SPEAK to patients as that is part of the assessment.
My age isn't important...when you have posted a bit longer on here, you will be well aware of my age.
how does he dress?
...and i'd say your age is very important b/c making assumptions and judging people based on superficial things isnt something adults should do.
I think you may be hanging on to the superficial things, she said that his clinical performances are also part of it.
First impressions really do make a difference, first impressions are typically based on appearance. Whether right or wrong, they can protect us and even save our lives. Making judgments based on multiple interactions isn't childish, acting on them may be considered childish if it isn't appropriate. Sometimes our first impressions of a person are not correct, sometimes we are too quick to judge people and later learn that we were completely wrong about that person.
Jules A, MSN
8,864 Posts
Personally I do think that GPA and the entrance exams are a good indicator of how a person will do in the actual program. I'm definitely not in favor of the schools that allow students to re-take pre-reqs numerous times to advance their grades so I think that should be considered and gpa points deducted. I would definitely give extra points for working CNAs.
IMO the basics of success in actually getting a nursing degree and being able to practice are the ability to pass the nursing courses and NCLEX. FWIW the students in my program that had problems passing the exams were the same ones barely getting Cs each semester and many of them just weren't devoting the time necessary.
Students need to be well rounded and that includes being able to pass tests. If a student is really bad in clinicals that is an issue to be taken up there and they can be failed from that portion. I also have seen students that were good with the patients but personally if I was the patient I'd rather a bright nurse that knew her stuff but wasn't so personable over a really nice one who doesn't fully understand the pathophysiology of my disease.