Best student selection process?

JStyles1 · Aug 10, 2008

Personally, I think the current system is not a good indicator. Students can make all the A's they want until they're blue in face but it cannot truly indicate performance in an intensive program. .

it shows that the person has the capabilities to be taught and can learn the material. you cant judge a person until you get them in the situation but going on previous grades you can get a great idea of how they are going to handle it.

hg09 · Aug 10, 2008

So why are there students failing out of programs that have chosen to accept nothing below, say, a 3.8? I'm not advocating for a wait-list method or even the "saintly" volunteering-to-apply, but I think it does help to know what you're getting into. As far as community service, I don't think it should be part of a criteria but if an applicant wants to express their experience, they should be allowed to. Most programs wont even consider looking at a personal statement, resume, letters of recommendations, etc, etc if they are not required.

JStyles1 · Aug 10, 2008

So why are there students failing out of programs that have chosen to accept nothing below, say, a 3.8? I'm not advocating for a wait-list method or even the "saintly" volunteering-to-apply, but I think it does help to know what you're getting into. As far as community service, I don't think it should be part of a criteria but if an applicant wants to express their experience, they should be allowed to. Most programs wont even consider looking at a personal statement, resume, letters of recommendations, etc, etc if they are not required.

theres numerous reasons why people could fail out of a program. i cant give a single reason why

hg09 · Aug 10, 2008

There's numerous things that could be taken into account for admission, not one single thing. I can see the other side for people that have stellar GPAs but I still think there's more to it than that.

hg09 · Aug 10, 2008

insert foot in mouth

CuriousMe · Aug 10, 2008

I find it confusing that medical programs can accept students in the lower range while most nursing programs would scoff at such an applicant. Not to say that the pre-med curriculum is synonymous with pre-nursing, but there has to be a reason why most nursing programs don't interview or look at any other factors while medical schools are hit with high volume applicants and manage to conduct interviews and look into volunteer/community service/shadowing/experience/etc. I'm starting to agree that the field has become too "convenient" for itself. There's really only one true reason for the ridiculous "I have to have straight A's to get into nursing school" mentality: lack of nurse educators and funding.

Well I'm sure that's a part of it, but I don't know of any nursing school that requires a 4.0 for admissions. The reason we need a 4.0 to get into nursing school is that soooooo many of the applicants have 4.0's.

That doesn't happen near as frequently for med school applicants because their GPA isn't based on 45 - 90 lower level credits, their GPA is based on their entire undergrad degree, which must include at least a year of Science major biology, a year of general chemistry, a year of organic chemistry, a year of science major physics, a year a calculus and often a year of upper level biochemistry. So....it's not uncommon after 200+ credits such as these to have a 3.6. But if there are 60 seats for a program and 200 of the applicants have a 4.0....don't you think that would push up the average GPA of an accepted applicant applicant?

The med schools (at least the one by me) use a similar process to the nursing schools here as they only interview 10% of their applicants. You can bet that GPA and MCAT scores are some of the initial ways to decide who they are going to interview.

No matter what selection process is used, there are going to be aspects of it that weed out people who would still be successful in that profession. If you go off of GPA, well there are B students that would still do well, if you go off of standardized test scores, well there are students that don't test well, if you go off essays then there are people who don't write as well, if you go off of interviews, there are people that get anxious and freeze up. You can be a great nurse and flub on any one of these criteria.

hg09 · Aug 10, 2008

The comment was retracted and foot placed in mouth. However, I should have clarified that I'm speaking exclusively about second-degree BSN programs. I guess I confused myself about what this thread really was about. I was thinking it's unrealistic for so many people to have a 4.0 in 200+ credits. :uhoh21:

CuriousMe · Aug 10, 2008

The comment was retracted and foot placed in mouth. However, I should have clarified that I'm speaking exclusively about second-degree BSN programs. I guess I confused myself about what this thread really was about. I was thinking it's unrealistic for so many people to have a 4.0 in 200+ credits. :uhoh21:

Sorry, it took me a bit of time to write my novella I didn't see your post.

Peace,

CuriousMe

justme1972 · Aug 10, 2008

I've noticed that schools have different selection processes to determine who will be admitted into nursing programs because there are too few openings to accommodate all that apply. So far I've heard of a lottery system, a lottery system with a minimum point requirement and TEAS score, and also I've heard of straight competitive based systems.
What do you think is the most fair and what do you think is the best for the nursing profession?
I've often thought that it must be very hard to sit on a selection committee.

To me, grades only tell part of the story. I had a family member that used to be on the admissions committee of a nursing school and she quit after 2 years b/c what she thought would make a good nurse, wasn't what academic-oriented instructors thought would be a good nurse.

We have a guy in our class who is a braniac. Near perfect scores on every exam. However, he doesnt speak unless spoken too, walks in a slow pace, and he makes you wonder who he is going to go out and shoot one day. He is very, very scary.....he does horrible in clinicals and it's like pulling teeth to get him to do anything. Nobody likes working with him.

We have another girl that struggles to pass and is always on the edge of failing all the time...but she is AMAZING in clinicals and with patient rapport. She really loves what she does and it shows. She is such a natural and she is going to make an awesome nurse.

She does know what she is doing...but just don't ask her to pick A,B,C or D.

I think nursing schools do the best that they can. I also think interviews are very important b/c you need to know how someone will conduct themselves in a professional setting....these girls that come to clinicals looking like they just crawled out of bed everyday looking like they slept in their uniform...would be going straight back home.

However, these schools that think the highest GPA and the highest test scores is getting them the best students, are only fooling themselves. Getting a CNA certification as a requirement to me, is ridiculous as well.

Gradin2010 · Aug 10, 2008

i think this "wait list" style is complete bull crap. students shouldnt be taken on a first come basis.
acceptance should be based on a point scale incorporating some sort of standardized test (how many points you get on the test is how many points you apply with), nursing pre-req course grades (A=3, B=2, C=1, Below=0), overall gpa (face value), and a score from a group faculty interview average and personal essay (0-10)
this would cover all basis and make sure only the top qualified students get in

The acceptance process at my CC was much like the ideal one you described. I was given points for overall gpa (which was around a 3.5 at the time), a personal essay, nursing pre-req grades (I had all but 1 completed and received A's and B's in all those classes), and points were also awarded if the applicant (me in this case) was currently a student at the college.

I believe that if I had been given an exam and/or a personal interview I could have furthur improved my chances of being accepted. However, I was not given a test or an interview and with all my qualifications based on the school's point system, I still sat on my schools waiting list for three years. I do begin the nursing program on Aug 25 of this year.

It would be fantastic if the selection process was altered, but as someone stated before, I think it just comes down to lack of funding and time to implement such a change.

llg, PhD, RN · Aug 10, 2008

I have served on an admissions committee and currently oversee the hiring process for a nursing student extern program. As the previous posters have indicated, determining "the best" selection is a highly complex issue. There are many factors that need to be included -- and sometimes those factors contradict each other and a compromise needs to be made that results in neither factor being given "perfect" consideration.

For example, nursing schools are not only trying to pick those students who will become good bedside nurses and "great with the patients." They also need to select those will make great scholars, researchers, educators, administrators, etc. The qualitiies that correlate with success for each of those roles varies.

Admissions committees must also think about serving the university's other missions as well -- e.g. providing educational opportunities for minority students, perhaps meeting established quotas to accept a certain percentage of in-state vs out-of-state students, perhaps "awarding points" for the children of faculty members or alumni, etc. For example, community colleges are often obligated to pick most of its students from the local population who pay the taxes that support the school. There would be a scandal if a high percentage of the class were filled by out-of-state students because they happened to be better students.

Then there is also the difficulty in evaluating GPA's. Are all "A's" really equal? Some applicants take their pre-req's at schools that are more rigorous than others. At some schools 50% of the students in a given class get an A, while at other schools, only 10% of the class gets an A -- and of course, the academic level of the student body differs from school to school.

etc. etc. etc. I could go on all day. The complexity means that the best any school can do with the very little money that they have been given to pay for its selection process is to come up with some compromises that gives everyone "a little something," but that leaves a lot of people feeling that the system is far from perfect.

JStyles1 · Aug 10, 2008

i just flat out hate the "wait list"