BAD Reference

Conqueror+, BSN, RN · Dec 7, 2015

WOW, the amount of the assumptions made by the OP is...telling.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Dec 8, 2015

Apparently, OP you seem to know more about how references work than many of us. Keep in mind that you've posed your question to senior nurses and nurse managers. We are aware of the process.

It is also very possible that someone else had a stronger interview than you, and this was also the deciding factor, even if the manager has not revealed this fact to you.

JustBeachyNurse, LPN · Dec 8, 2015

Maybe your reference wasn't what they were looking for not that it was negative or slander. Maybe you were not the right choice

FlyingButterfly · Dec 8, 2015

Maybe your reference wasn't what they were looking for not that it was negative or slander. Maybe you were not the right choice

Today, I talked to one of them in the interview panel (2 persons interviewed, and one person was taking note)...She said my interview was good, but after so and so talked to your supervisor, he was not impressed...l talked to her about the stuff that I pointed out here, she told me apply again, they would consider my application, and stay away from that reference.

This appointment was such a relief.

Thank you guys for your time and giving helpful feedback.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Dec 14, 2015

OK, let me clarify something here: Nurse are required to be truthful in their practice including interacting with their colleagues/staff/superviser...A reference who stated positively/clearly she would give good recommendation for you and did not, in my point of view, lacks truthfulness...They could have said "Don't use me as a reference", "No, I wouldn't be able to give you a good recommendation", etc...Even, by being leukwarm; when asked, one could see it as a red flag, hence not using them as a reference.. The reference was my supervisor.
And, I thought may be you could consult an employment attorney or your union representative in your institution to help you with this/to investigate the possibility of defamation.

You do not know how "frank" the person was with your supervisor. Perhaps the supervisor did say something like "I am unable to answer that" or "I am not comfortable answering that question" which for some hiring people, being evasive is just as much a red flag as a "bad" reference.

You do not know what your supervisor said, you do not know if that was the reason that you were not hired.

There are some policies in some arenas that state that no one can give a reference except for HR.

If you are saying that you called to follow up with the place you wanted to work and they told you "your supervisor gave you a bad reference, and blah, blah, blah" that is confidential information that should not be shared. And actually, your supervisor could complain to corporate compliance that their privacy was violated.

Perhaps your former supervisor thought you could need more experience in the area you were applying to. Maybe your supervisor didn't want to lose you on the unit. Maybe the supervisor had an axe to grind. Perhaps it was another reference that was not ideal.

In the future, I would never, ever put someone--supervisor or not--on the spot of "will you give me a good reference". Beyond HR, people seem to want personal references--which to me is not your supervisor.

So in all of this, the only person I see that could be "in trouble" is the HR person who gathered all this info about you, and then gave you the down low on who exactly said what. And that is an issue on a corporate level.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Dec 14, 2015

Today, I talked to one of them in the interview panel (2 persons interviewed, and one person was taking note)...She said my interview was good, but after so and so talked to your supervisor, he was not impressed...l talked to her about the stuff that I pointed out here, she told me apply again, they would consider my application, and stay away from that reference.
This appointment was such a relief.
Thank you guys for your time and giving helpful feedback.

Your supervisor would have recourse in this. The whole communication that you just described is so beyond inappropriate, unprofessional, and wrong on a number of levels.

You should be able to get feedback regarding your need to grow/educate yourself/get more experience in xyz. But what this turned into was how "he" was "not impressed" due to what your supervisor supposedly said.

And OP you mentioned evaluations in a pp and how they were subjective, etc. As is a verbal recommendation. If your former evaluations were not goal oriented and/or timelined, and you can not speak to how you met expectation, your supervisor could speak to that as well.

I am not sure this would be a facility that I would be excited to work at.

JustBeachyNurse, LPN · Dec 14, 2015

Your supervisor would have recourse in this. The whole communication that you just described is so beyond inappropriate, unprofessional, and wrong on a number of levels.
You should be able to get feedback regarding your need to grow/educate yourself/get more experience in xyz. But what this turned into was how "he" was "not impressed" due to what your supervisor supposedly said.
And OP you mentioned evaluations in a pp and how they were subjective, etc. As is a verbal recommendation. If your former evaluations were not goal oriented and/or timelined, and you can not speak to how you met expectation, your supervisor could speak to that as well.
I am not sure this would be a facility that I would be excited to work at.

Exactly. In Canada the law states the communication between a prospective employer and reference is confidential. While you have no legal case, your former supervisor may have one against the panelist that divulged such details.

elkpark · Dec 14, 2015

If you are saying that you called to follow up with the place you wanted to work and they told you "your supervisor gave you a bad reference, and blah, blah, blah" that is confidential information that should not be shared. And actually, your supervisor could complain to corporate compliance that their privacy was violated.

Exactly. Job applicants have, either in the fine print of the application form or on a separate, specific consent form, given permission for their references and prior employers to release information about them to the potential employer. References definitely have not given consent for the information they shared to be disclosed to the applicant. Most professionals I know, including myself, would be unwilling to serve as a reference under those conditions. That is a major lapse of judgment on the part of the specific individual(s) communicating with the OP, and probably a violation of the organization's policies/procedures.

And, if, as the OP notes, the advice was to apply again without submitting that reference, what's up with that? Is the person who was put off by the reference this time going to just forget that the OP recently applied for the position and they decided not hire her/him based on the references? If they would be willing to hire her with a new application but without the one reference, why wouldn't they be willing to simply hire her the first time (on the basis that the positive aspects of her application and interview outweighed the one reference)?

OP, people get uncomfortable when confronted with unpleasant questions like what went wrong with my job application, and they will often say things they don't necessarily mean just to get out of the situation as gracefully as possible. She may have been saying whatever popped into her head to get herself out of the situation when you put her on the spot. I wouldn't count on getting the job on the second application until it actually happens.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Dec 14, 2015

Doesn't make sense to me either why they wouldn't have just hired the OP anyway, if she has been advised to submit a second application. Why bother at all then? That's a waste of time and resources.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic.

Dreamscometru · Dec 16, 2015

Hey there, hang in there. I posted something similar a couple months back. I worked as a PCA at a hospital and have been banned from the entire hospital as a nurse for a year. Why? Because someone decided to write a bad reference about me. Why? I don't understand why someone would stop a new grad nurse from moving on with their career. Honestly I wouldn't want to work for a hospital who decided to not hire me after a bad recommendation. I was never once late to work, never called off, never had any complaints. I always had good evaluations. My manager said great things about me and yet they ignored the positive and hung on to the negative and told me to go elsewhere. I was accepted into the NICU (my dream job) and an ambulatory primary care job. All my dreams were shut down. People on here were supportive but there were others who were not just as they aren't with you. Life goes on. I am now a nurse at a big hospital and I am liking it so far. The hospital I am at is amazing. The environment is so different....more positive and everyone seems to care here more. Everything happens for a reason. I still think about how I lost my dream job but things don't go the way we want sometimes. Maybe this was meant for me....maybe I will make a bigger difference here. I hope you move on as well. Your name has been tainted. Go elsewhere if possible. Good luck. Remember this too shall pass....

Ruby Vee, BSN · Dec 16, 2015

Hey there, hang in there. I posted something similar a couple months back. I worked as a PCA at a hospital and have been banned from the entire hospital as a nurse for a year. Why? Because someone decided to write a bad reference about me. Why? I don't understand why someone would stop a new grad nurse from moving on with their career. Honestly I wouldn't want to work for a hospital who decided to not hire me after a bad recommendation. I was never once late to work, never called off, never had any complaints. I always had good evaluations. My manager said great things about me and yet they ignored the positive and hung on to the negative and told me to go elsewhere. I was accepted into the NICU (my dream job) and an ambulatory primary care job. All my dreams were shut down. People on here were supportive but there were others who were not just as they aren't with you. Life goes on. I am now a nurse at a big hospital and I am liking it so far. The hospital I am at is amazing. The environment is so different....more positive and everyone seems to care here more. Everything happens for a reason. I still think about how I lost my dream job but things don't go the way we want sometimes. Maybe this was meant for me....maybe I will make a bigger difference here. I hope you move on as well. Your name has been tainted. Go elsewhere if possible. Good luck. Remember this too shall pass....

Bad recommendations are a very good reason not to hire someone. Personally, I wouldn't want to work for an employer who hired people despite bad recommendations.

Conqueror+, BSN, RN · Dec 16, 2015

What's that smell ?