Awkward Situation

Cul2 · Feb 20, 2009

Just can't believe some of the responses here. Some make common sense and show compassion. Others seem to just promote stereotypes about men. Can't believe the poster who said the boy may have been having a fantasy about the nurses. Get out of yourself. Can't believe dnp2004's last post, especially: "The caregivers, especially if they are female, tend to think the male patient is an out-of-control, perverted, disrespectful, pig that only cares about his own gratification without regards to others." Is that a common attitude? I hope not.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Feb 20, 2009

For heaven's sake

I guess after so many years it's a nonissue for me. Turn around and leave, go back in a few minutes, and knock a little louder. When I was a new grad I would have been paralyzed with embarassment, but having a few years behind me, there are bigger fish to fry. If anyone is nervous about dealing with the situation just know that as you get older it will get easier, then act like you've seen it all before, and try to forget about it.

wanderlust99 · Feb 20, 2009

what a perv. he obviously wanted you to see him! i would tell his parents hehe

Flare, ASN, BSN · Feb 20, 2009

I'm with you, canoehead. It's almost a non-issue. If he's taking care of himself behind a closed door (may not have heard the knock if he was focused on other activities, as earlier stated -really focusing on those endorphins!) it's not really any of my business. I mean, come on... this is a 16 yo boy -it's practically a way of life at that age.

dnp2004 · Feb 20, 2009

Wow this lowly thread seems to have a life of its own, go figure!

After 30+ years of doing this in almost every continent, I can honestly say this should be a non-issue. My problems have not been with patients but with fellow caregivers. They should try taking care of Ebola infected children for a summer to see how trivial this all is.

Cul2, you asked me to clarify the statement:

"The caregivers, especially if they are female, tend to think the male patient is an out-of-control, perverted, disrespectful, pig that only cares about his own gratification without regards to others."

Admittedly this statement, isolated from the body of the original post, does look very prejudicial. It would give the impression that it is referring to caregivers perceptions of males in general. It is not and I am sorry if I gave you that impression because that has definitely not been my experience.

In regards to caregivers comments about patients who have had nocturnal emissions, sadly based on my observation, yes Cul2, it is a common attitude. It has nothing to do with a lack of compassion. I find must people who enter this field to be very compassionate. It is just a misunderstanding. When I was supervising I would have my caregivers complain to me with they had to clean up this mess. I have had more than a few female caregivers ask me to switch the patient over to a male caregiver.

What upset them so much was their assumption the patient willfully created the mess by engaging in an activity that is inappropriate in a hospital setting. Also they felt the patient was so inconsiderate and/or lazy they would not even clean up after themselves. All of the adjectives I used in the sentence you quoted were all taken directly from the comments of caregiver I have supervised over the years when this was encountered. Some had told the patient something to the effect of, "don't be disgusting, if you are well enough to make a mess, you are well enough to clean up." These patients were not pervs by any stretch of the imagination. They were just sick, mostly bedridden people.

I would calmly tell the caregiver leave. Then I would introduce myself to the red faced humiliated patient and apologize to them. I told them I would talk to the caregiver. Since I was the supervisor this meant a lot to them.

Once away from the patient I would very sternly explain things to the caregiver. I remember in several cases reminding the caregiver that their patients could not even use their own arms because of fractures, etc. I would always tell them to personally apologize to the patient. If they refused I would immediately grant them some unscheduled-unpaid days off! In which case I would take over their duties and not let them finish their shifts. Now if any of you think I was too strict, ask yourself this. What you would do if a caregiver treated one of your loved ones in that manner?

Hope this clarified my position Cul2.

Cul2 · Feb 21, 2009

thank you, dnp2004 , for your thoughtful response. yes, it does clarify your position and put your comments into better context. i applaud you for the way you handle that kind of insensitive treatment. but it does disturb me that you say: "in regards to caregivers comments about patients who have had nocturnal emissions, sadly based on my observation, yes cul2, it is a common attitude." assuming they are caring, compassionate people, as you say (which i don't doubt), why do you think they have this attitude? you say it's a misunderstanding. do you think more education is needed in this area?

twistedpupchaser · Feb 21, 2009

Until reading this thread I always believed the truism that the most sensitive part of ones body when masturbating was their ears....listening for footsteps!

djc1981 · Feb 21, 2009

Speaking as a former 16 yr old male, he is NOT a pervert. That is basically all that we do when we are alone at that age. The OP handled it well by ignoring it and not causing any undue embarassment.

dnp2004 · Feb 21, 2009

thank you, dnp2004 , for your thoughtful response. yes, it does clarify your position and put your comments into better context. i applaud you for the way you handle that kind of insensitive treatment. but it does disturb me that you say: "in regards to caregivers comments about patients who have had nocturnal emissions, sadly based on my observation, yes cul2, it is a common attitude." assuming they are caring, compassionate people, as you say (which i don't doubt), why do you think they have this attitude? you say it's a misunderstanding. do you think more education is needed in this area?

this was the first post i have every written in my life! i was a little tired too hence the not-so-clear writing style in my little diatribe:nuke:

yes cul2 a little education always goes a long way. how much education is needed, only about 1-2 minutes worth actually. as most of the intelligent people on this post have said, it it is really not a big deal. unless the caregiver makes it a big deal. i mean we don't get mad when a patient has a weak bladder or nosebleed do we?

"what causes these attitudes?", you asked. well, we entered the health profession well after much of our socialization took place. by the time we leave high school our religious beliefs, moral attitudes, and value systems have been established. also by that time of your life you have learned from 18-20 of past experience.

we are all health professionals and most of us would agree that men and women are equally trained and competent. yet for "intimate" exams and procedures many women in our field prefer other women. many male health professionals, if asked, will say they prefer dealing with a male health care professionals for anything involving their genitalia. in the case of both sexes, usually this is because of social conditioning/experiences well before they entered this field. me personally? i have dealt with good and bad eggs in both gender groups, so i don't have a gender preference. they just better be competent, compassionate and well mannered.

now, if you grew up believing any sexual expression outside of a marriage is wrong, you will have most likely have that same attitude when you become a caregiver. if you viewpoint is formed from religious beliefs your attitudes toward this issue maybe very strong indeed. the same can be said for the patient as well if they were "caught" doing something that is in conflict with their core beliefs. when i had to deal with the previously mentioned outbursts against the patients, the caregivers were all very compassionate people. they just thought what the patient was doing was wrong, disrespectful and/or immoral.

to them, it was analogous to patients having sex in the room. after debriefing them, i found most of hostile caretakers were religiously opposed to masturbation and did appreciate me lecturing them nocturnal emission. one very religious caregiver told one of my patients, "you should get a wife now and stay away from sinful thoughts". i quickly reminded her that she just told the patient to break the law being that such a marriage would constitute statutory rape in this state (under 18)!

hey, there is a very serious side to all this if you find you are working in a facility that allows practices outside of your beliefs. take me for example. i once worked at a facility where i was asked to assist in a circumcision. having recently transferred to that department i naively asked what was wrong with the patient? the doctor looked at me with a strange look and said, "isn't it obvious, the problem is junior still has a foreskin!"

i told the surgeon my philosophy is to do no harm. his reply was that the procedure is being done on the boy because the parents wanted it for religious reasons. i asked if he would circumcise a baby girl (removal of the clitoral hood) if it was what her parents wanted. he told me he deeply resented that question and ask me to follow him to the president's room. all three of us had a lively discussion. first they told me that since i have lived in so many countries, i did not understand how things are done here.

once that argument failed to impress me both of them tried to convince me the foreskin is as nonessential as the tonsils and appendix. i then told them we only remove those organs when a medical problem exists and that the baby seemed to be perfectly healthy. once they realized i would not take part in circumcisions i was immediately terminated because i was "insubordinate' and did not have the qualities of a good leader. they also told me they would contact the board and get my license revoked so i could not practice anywhere. they failed and years later i can say i have no regrets;)

Logan · Feb 21, 2009

Hi,

I'm no "young buck"... but the argument that the pt. is a "pervert" is pure nonsense.

How old is the pt. again? How many of you puritans condemning him remember yourselves and your 'aches and desires' at his age?

Yes, it could be argued that he was "masturbating" and as such it's not a very 'appropriate' activity to be engaged in in a hospital (or "anywhere" as many folks believe...)

Me?

If it wasn't urgent, I'd leave the fella undisturbed for a few minutes (or let him know through the crack in the door that I'd be back shortly if the issue was urgent).

Upon follow up, I'd break it to him as gently as I could that while I understand his natural masturbatory impulses; he has to reign in his impluses while he is in the hospital.

I've followed a similar policiy for females too.

Frankly, in a nation like ours, I'm surprised something as trivial as this is even an issue...

thanks,

Matthew

dnp2004 · Feb 22, 2009

Matthew (Logan),

Amen Brother! You have a good head on your shoulders. Where were you and your rational thinking when I needed you in my facility years ago? HaHa

You are right about the Puritans. The more I read about them the more I realize how similar they were to the present day Taliban in their lack of tolerance and harsh disciplinary practices.

Bortaz, MSN, RN · Feb 22, 2009

You should have said, "Be sure to wash your hands."