the shootings at the johns hopkins hospital made national news. maybe i'm cynical, but i think it was because a doctor was shot. news reports say that dr. david cohen was updating the patient's son about her condition, and the man was increasingly unhappy with what he was hearing. after threatening to jump out of a window, he pulled out a gun and shot the surgeon in the abdomen. he was taken to the er -- and whoever went and removed him from the scene is certainly heroic! -- and then to surgery. latest reports are that he is doing well and expected to make a full recovery.
the visitor shot his mother and then himself.
this may seem like an isolated incident, but really it's just a progression of what we nurses put up with on a regular basis. shooting a doctor makes the news. threatening to shoot the nurse, even if you're armed and dangerous, does not. decking a doctor makes the news. beating up on mother's nurse does not. threatening a doctor gets attention; threatening a nurse is business as usual.
i've been kicked, bitten, slapped, punched and threatened with knives, guns and an "attack dog" while in the course of taking care of patients. once i was in the center of an armed confrontation between law enforcement personnel who carried guns and were unhappy with their relative's care and hospital security personnel. the situation was resolved without formal charges, and the visitors were back the next day. another time, when taking care of a prison inmate who was dying i was nearly knifed by his son (also an inmate) with a homemade machete he'd smuggled out of prison and into the hospital. withdrawing care on the patient was illegal -- it would be shortening the convict's life sentence. the son was intent on shortening the life sentence, although it's unclear whether he was doing it to ensure dad was indeed on his way to hell or if it would have been a mercy killing. (i wasn't particularly brave. i had my back to the visitor and was tackled by a prison guard to get me out of danger while two other guards wrestled the son to the ground and disarmed him.) it's made me reluctant to turn my back on visitors.
in some states, threatening or attacking a health care worker performing her job is a crime on the same level as assaulting a police officer. not in our state. the visitors are free to insult, assault and batter nurses and then come back to visit. in one incident, a patient's husband threatened me and another nurse with a handgun at 6 pm. it was 9pm before the police were notified, and midnight before the visitor -- who was in plain sight the entire time -- was in custody. he was back visiting by 6 am. our manager, bless her heart, wasn't concerned about the gun-toting husband because "he's from texas. everyone carries a gun there."
we need stiffer penalties for attacks on nursing staff, managers who will stand up for us and a visitor's code of conduct prominently posted in hospital entrances and waiting rooms and strictly enforced. (metal detectors and locked units would be nice, too, but i'm not holding my breath.) and we need it sooner, rather than later.
I don't think the post is in poor taste, I think Ruby is exactly right. Nurses get dumped on, attacked, berated, threatened, and abused, because we're replaceable and we don't bring the hospital revenue, unlike physicians. It's sad but true. Am I shocked and saddened this happened? Absolutely.
Makes me wonder why did the patient attack thAt particular doctor,what has the doctor have done to him?
First, making a statement like that is just as bad and unfair as when management/public blames nurses for getting hurt - "you must have DESERVED it".
Second, while normally I am kindred with RV's beliefs, today I am not. The violence invaded my workplace, and I frankly DO NOT CARE whether it was nurse or an MD or a janitor or the lawn man.
"I do agree with Ruby that nurses in general are not valued, and had this happened to a nurse at Hopkins you would have never heard Diane Sawyer talking about it. (Nothing personal against Diane; I watch her every night.)"
What a cynical group. Seriously, you don't think if a nurse, tech, food server, etc. was shot at Johns Hopkins it wouldn't make the news?
I agree with a previous poster that this thread is in poor taste.
Makes me wonder why did the patient attack thAt particular doctor,what has the doctor have done to him?
My guess would be that whatever information, and perhaps how this poor fellow happened to be presenting it was the trigger for a previously known to be unstable psyche.
I'd put money on it, watch for follow-up reports.
Well at least it's not just with nurses that we blame the victim. Do we really think that if it was presented better that the crazy guy would have been happier? If it was a female doctor wearing a short skirt, would we blame her if the crazy guy raped her before shooting her?
The hospital that I work at makes it a yearly mandatory skills-lab requisite to learn how to verbally and physically manage people (patients and visitors) that begin to escalate to a violent level. We first learn how to diffuse the situation, and when that fails, we use a take down "move" that we are required to practice on each other during skills lab.
I cannot imagine myself utilizing that technique on anyone, let alone the fact that they may posses lethal weapons!
I always wondered if I could be 'written up' for not utilizing proper technique in a dire situation such as that.
The Dr's are not required to learn these techniques...........
Well at least it's not just with nurses that we blame the victim. Do we really think that if it was presented better that the crazy guy would have been happier? If it was a female doctor wearing a short skirt, would we blame her if the crazy guy raped her before shooting her?
I am eluding to contributory factors as opposed to blame in my reply in post #11.
A left turning vehicle must yield to oncoming traffic, yet the oncoming traffic had ample opportunity to decelerate to avoid impact, but choses not to.
An example of a contributory factor, but we still do not know with certainty what was the trigger in this case, but my money is still on what was said.
What exactly is the complaint? That nurse shootings don't make the news? That nurses get attacked all the time and nobody cares? How frequently are there nurse shootings in relation to doctor shootings? In this case I think the prominence of the hospital contributed to making it a big story. Maybe we should complain that people care more about shootings in famous hospitals than in small, obscure ones.
Specializes in med-surg, psych, ER, school nurse-CRNP.
Ok. A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL was shot while performing his job functions. This is horrific in and of itself. Doctors, as well as nurses, are our colleagues and the tragedy of this situation doesn't need to be minimized by someone piggybacking a "well, nurses have it just as bad, but we don't make the news" post. WHO CARES? A physician was seriously wounded!
This post is in very poor taste, IMHO.
Yes, and that's the point, hon. How many nurses across the country are seriously wounded by family and visitors DAILY, without so much as a mention on page 10? He got in the news because he was an almighty doctor period, end of sentence, 'nuff said. No one's minimizing anything, just making a perfectly valid (and often overlooked) point.
Poor taste? Methinks it may all be subjective, because that post was right on the money.
Specializes in med-surg, psych, ER, school nurse-CRNP.
I've gone through those crap training sessions as well. They're just that, crap. You have to get WAY too close for comfort to use those.
Maybe it's a Southern thing, but down here, we have concealed-carry permits and we USE THEM! I'll take Old Bessie (my 9 mil) ofer my tae-kwon-do any day. We have drug reps AND patients that come in packing. Had a guy come in last week with a little Kel-Tec strapped to his ankle. It's a way of life here.
I think that, as one member said already, metal detectors have a place in most hospitals. If it happens at JH, it can happen any old where.
And, poor taste or not, were it "just a nurse" as has been said, the press would not have been as wide or as complete. Just saying.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
well at least it's not just with nurses that we blame the victim. do we really think that if it was presented better that the crazy guy would have been happier? if it was a female doctor wearing a short skirt, would we blame her if the crazy guy raped her before shooting her?
i thought the comment about "what did the doctor do to him" was rather tongue in cheek rather than a serious question. when a nurse gets attacked, that's the first thing risk management and most nurse managers want to know.
LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM
1,656 Posts
I don't think the post is in poor taste, I think Ruby is exactly right. Nurses get dumped on, attacked, berated, threatened, and abused, because we're replaceable and we don't bring the hospital revenue, unlike physicians. It's sad but true. Am I shocked and saddened this happened? Absolutely.