Atheist or Agnostic?

[firstyearstudent]

I know, I know, you're never supposed to talk about religion or politics, right....

I'm really not trying to start a religious debate, but just get a sense of where people are at. I'm a first year student and an atheist, yet all my fellow students and the nurses I'm meeting are believers.

If and when I become an atheist nurse, am I going to find myself a fish out of water?

[leslie :-D]

I'm of course dealing with a 16 year old who is, as I mentioned, questioning her belief in God. I see this as a normal occurance. However, I'm always hit in the head with her accusing people of being hypocrites. That people who go to church make mistakes, gossip, get grumpy, lash out in anger, cuss, fail. Well honey, welcome to the wonderful world of being a human being. Are the folks she hangs around with at school perfect? Do they gossip? Does she ever get her feelings hurt by her friends (yes, all the time to that last one).

i think your dtr has valid concerns.

i too wrestle with these issues.

i know of many people who go to church weekly but continue to cheat on their spouse, steal from work, cheat on their taxes, deceive their friends and family, etc. they know they're sinning; they know they're wrong. but they feel going to confession and church will absolve them of all sin.

my husband is as catholic as they become. and when i share my concerns with raising our children catholic, he can't refute my contentions.

both my sons attend Catholic School- our public schools are a disgrace. if i want them to receive a good education, then this is where i place them. when my dtr went to a certain Catholic School, she brought her very homosexual best friend to meet her after school. the headmaster, (i'll call her Sister Mary) took dd aside and started fishing for information. then she proceeded to recite a blurb from the Bible about homosexuals!! my dtr was devastated; her best friend obviously detected the disapproval. i stormed up to the school and the headmaster and i dueled it out.

so even though a close friend of mine has sent me the New Testament for me to read, i won't.

my paternal grandmother was a staunch but religious Protestant. yet she didn't even attempt to hide her aversion towards Blacks, Catholics and Jews. when she was dx'd with advanced colon ca, and there wasn't a hospital around that would admit her because she was "terminal", my grandfather found her St. Rose's Home, a very Catholic facility, where the nuns tended to her fungating lesions and kept her peaceful, out of pain. i visited her frequently and was in close contact with the sisters. they knew of grandma's bigotry and continued to treat her as one of their own.

yes, i do think there are alot of hypocrites....of all denominations and those that are non-denominational.

i don't care if one is God-seeking or agnostic or atheist. i am impressed with those who strive to better themselves and the world around them; that's all that matters.

leslie

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

If god gave us free will, then he doesn't play a role in this world. All that happens is man's doing. Then whats the point in praying or praising god when something happens? I hear it so often - "Prayers were answered".

If "prayers were answered" then obvisouly god chooses to answer some prayers and not answer others - since not all prayers are answered. If this is the case, then we don't have complete free will.

OR, god is a funny chap who has his own bizzare reasons for letting family X suffer while sparing family Y - even though there may be no difference between the pious worth of the two.

And as for the reason behind original sin - how is a child born with lymphoma today responsible for the stupidity of adam and eve millenia ago? (By the way, I like how the choice is between "ignorant and immortal" and "Intelligent but mortal") Even a child born to pious believers who suffers from terminal disease? Why should innocent children suffer for the fault of their parents?

Because it is god's will?

Sorry - I just dont' see the point in trying to rationalize faith.

I think some people are comfortable/ok with reasoning these quandreis as "it's just god's will". And I guess some people aren't. And I suppose that's just how different people are.

Some value faith. Others reason. There is no wrong or right I suppose - that's just how things are...

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Some value faith. Others reason. There is no wrong or right I suppose - that's just how things are...

And others try to use reason with their faith.

That website, NPR, that was posted earlier . . . there are alot of really good articles, from both sides of the issue, which I've been reading off and on all day.

Reasonable people, smart people, believe. Also, vice versa.

As this thread attests to, I think.

steph

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

I'm not trying to say that only the ignorant or the foolish believe in god. Or that believers must be dumb.

There is faith.

There is reason.

You can't reasonably bring the two together (too many contradictions for starters) - there's nothing wrong with that either. That's just how things are...

... after all this is no superiority or popularity contest - this is about how people view and lead their lives.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

i think your dtr has valid concerns.

i too wrestle with these issues.

leslie

I think her concerns are valid too . . . the same ones I wrestled with before becoming a Christian and throughout my walk with God.

Blaming God for people twisting his thoughts and turning our backs on Him because of human being's behavior is unfortunate.

I'm sorry your daughter experienced what she did. Today at my oldest son's campus, there is a group called "Soul Force" visiting. Two weeks ago Tony Campolo came on campus to talk to the students about love and homosexuality in anticipation of this group, which is made up of homosexual young people trying to change the ideas on Christian campuses re: homosexuality. Tony wanted the students to react with love. I think they will.

I'm glad this is happening and happy for my son to experience an event like this.

I was also moved by your telling of the nuns treating your racist grandma.

I think of people like Mother Teresa - she was very intelligent and completely sacrificing and loving.

steph

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

There is faith.

There is reason.

You can't reasonably bring the two together (too many contradictions for starters) - there's nothing wrong with that either. That's just how things are...

quote]

I respectfully disagree . . . I've read too much in Christian History about the wrestling people before me went through to ever doubt that there is reasoning in having faith.

C.S. Lewis is my favorite "reasoner". "The Screwtape Letters" is an amazing book.

steph

[Happy2Beme]

I myself am a Christian but I'm also convinced that all religions are valid.

I don't think that there is one single religion that is The Truth.

If you ask me than Islam is just as valid as Christianity or Budhism.

I do believe in the existence of one single supremeg being we call God but that if he wanted every single human to adhere to one interpretation of one particular belief, then why are there so many different religions on this planet?

If you ask me, it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as your a good person.

What does make me mad is religious fundamentalists who want to impose their faith on others. People who think like that can make me go steaming mad because they are so wrong!

Did you know that most fundamentalist interpretations of both the bible and the quran are simply plain wrong? Take a minute to think about that.

Bye, Michiel Messink

I thought so, too, but then someone showed me this.....now I'm not so sure:sniff:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110008181

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

So are you saying that non believers are not FIT to pray with you?

I think what Angie is saying, and obviously I can't speak for her, is that she can spot a hippocrite a mile away. Anyone can say a prayer. But she would prefer the prayer to come from someone who actually believes in whom they are praying to. Makes sense to me.

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

So are you saying that non believers are not FIT to pray with you?

Originally Posted by lorster

So are you saying that non believers are not FIT to pray with you?

I think what Angie is saying, and obviously I can't speak for her, is that she can spot a hippocrite a mile away. Anyone can say a prayer. But she would prefer the prayer to come from someone who actually believes in whom they are praying to. Makes sense to me.

You got it right, Tweety. Thanks.

It has nothing to do with "fitness," Lorster. Only with the fact that if you ask a non-Christian to pray, they suddenly have this look on their face like you've just asked them to do something illegal.

Whereas, the Christian is OK with it, and in some cases, is quietly doing so anyway.

[BZoe]

I think being agnostic has helped me be a better nurse because I'm not opinionated. The pt gets what s/he wants from me without hints to go in another direction if s/he has made her mind up because I don't have the baggage of a divine dictator saying life has to be a certain way. A pt can safely bounce ideas off me without me having an agenda if she hasn't made her mind up about something. I don't have some religion telling me that their are easy answers to the obedient so can help people think through options.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

There is faith.

There is reason.

You can't reasonably bring the two together (too many contradictions for starters) - there's nothing wrong with that either. That's just how things are...

I respectfully disagree . . . I've read too much in Christian History about the wrestling people before me went through to ever doubt that there is reasoning in having faith.

C.S. Lewis is my favorite "reasoner". "The Screwtape Letters" is an amazing book.

steph

I think we're talking in parallel here. Mea Culpa. That's one of the problems with using the written language and in conveying thoughts over a bulletin board. I should have clarified.

Any given word in English probably has a hundred meanings attached to it, since English (like many languages) is a very contextual language. I'm using the literal meaning of "reason" - not the philosophical definition (which run into the dozens).

To wit:

"Reason" ::

- a rational motive for a belief or action (eg:"the grounds for their declaration").

- think logically (eg: "The children must learn to reason").

- a fact that logically justifies some premise or conclusion (eg: "there is reason to believe he is lying").

There is no reasoning in religion. That's why it requires faith. We are dealing with the supernatural in the first place. We are talking about woman being made of a man's rib, talking snakes, ressurecting the dead, parting seas, healing disease by touch - so on and so forth.

If you can provide rational arguments for all these events, I'm all ears.

Again, I must stress, I'm not pointing out what's right and what's not. Who is better and whose is worse. I'm just saying that's how things are. Some people are comfortable with it, some aren't - and that's perfectly fine.

You can either be faithful to reason. Or to faith. But not both - unless you're willing to compromise on principle (at which point adherance to either becomes meaningless).

Adhering to one or the other doesn't make you some superior being or a dumb hick. As many have pointed out throughout this thread - the very thought that your belief makes you superior to another human being is your own conceit and downfall. :)

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

Only with the fact that if you ask a non-Christian to pray, they suddenly have this look on their face like you've just asked them to do something illegal.

"Fact" ? That's a pretty blanket statement for about 2/3rds of the world population...