Atheist or Agnostic?

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I know, I know, you're never supposed to talk about religion or politics, right....

I'm really not trying to start a religious debate, but just get a sense of where people are at. I'm a first year student and an atheist, yet all my fellow students and the nurses I'm meeting are believers.

If and when I become an atheist nurse, am I going to find myself a fish out of water?

I agree. The concept of chance has always seemed more awesome to me than fate.

The concept of chance works well in Christianity.

One of the stumbling blocks throughout time is why does God "allow" bad things to happen. Many books have been written about it - people have always struggled with it.

Because of free will, God gives us freedom to choose. He didn't make robots.

The same principal applies to nature. Hurricanes, floods, fire, earthquakes. God works within the natural framework He designed.

Christians believe that the reason for diseases is of course the Fall in the Garden of Eden - God warned but he allowed Adam and Eve the right to make bad choices.

It is all so very complicated - as I mentioned there are years of trying to understand this issue before today.

I too struggled and still struggle with kids being abused - how God can just stand back and allow it. But if He gave us free will, we have to live with the consequences of free will and some of those are bad people doing bad things.

As I mentioned, I became a Christian in my late 20's. I didn't grow up in a church although my mom, for some weird reason, did send us occasionally to church and I've been to many different kinds growing up. (Maybe she wanted a morning off from kids - she didn't go with us).

Even in Christianity, chance made the child with Harlequins . . . genetic chance.

But the intricacy of things as they get smaller amazes me . . . the detail of planning in DNA . . .that just doesn't seem like something that was not designed by someone pretty smart.

steph

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That was good. And there are a whole lot more at the bottom of that essay including the following.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4656595

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4975444

(especially this statement in the last article resonates with me . . . .. . I was unable to reconcile the evidences I had known of self-sacrifice and forgiveness, or even this suicide, with the notion that a human life consists only of one's biology.

steph

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Specializes in Critical Care.
One of the stumbling blocks throughout time is why does God "allow" bad things to happen. Many books have been written about it - people have always struggled with it.

Because of free will, God gives us freedom to choose. He didn't make robots.

The same principal applies to nature. Hurricanes, floods, fire, earthquakes. God works within the natural framework He designed.

Christians believe that the reason for diseases is of course the Fall in the Garden of Eden - God warned but he allowed Adam and Eve the right to make bad choices.

It is all so very complicated - as I mentioned there are years of trying to understand this issue before today.

I too struggled and still struggle with kids being abused - how God can just stand back and allow it. But if He gave us free will, we have to live with the consequences of free will and some of those are bad people doing bad things.

steph

I can understand the "free will" in abuse. It's the abusers decision to do the act. What I had trouble is the little ones who are SO wanted. The ones that take their last breath the second they take their first. For the couple who have struggled for years against the odds to concieve, finally achieve their goal, and go through this incredible agony. This is what has never been explained to me.

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Let's pretend that I'm that dying patient. Believe me, I'll know if you're a Christian or not, by the way you react to that question. So please, if you aren't a Christian, it's perfectly OK to go get someone else. JMO.

So are you saying that non believers are not FIT to pray with you?

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This whole thread has made me realize that it is a "them and us" world out there. I'm bad because I don't believe and you are all GOOD because you do. I do not understand this. We all live on this planet and we all must get along and part of that getting along is having a great respect for what others believe...and don't believe. Being religous is very different than being spiritual. The christians think that if you are athiest, you are a bad person...devil like. I used to believe deeply, so I have been on both sides of this fence. I feel better and sleep well knowing that I practice being a good human being, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Not just on Sundays like many christians that I have met in my life. And believe me, you know who you are. If you sit in judgement of anyone on this earth, and that means homosexuals, women who opt for abortion, people of religions that are unlike your own, etc, etc, then you better stop and take a good look at yourself and what you are believing in. If you sit in judgement of anyone, no matter what the situation, then you better look deeper within yourself and figure out what made you that way. None of you know where you are headed after this life so make the most of this one. Your dying patient is asking that you just be there while he makes his final preparations to exit this earth. Where he goes next, none of us truely knows. If we did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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This whole thread has made me realize that it is a "them and us" world out there. I'm bad because I don't believe and you are all GOOD because you do. I do not understand this. We all live on this planet and we all must get along and part of that getting along is having a great respect for what others believe...and don't believe. Being religous is very different than being spiritual. The christians think that if you are athiest, you are a bad person...devil like. I used to believe deeply, so I have been on both sides of this fence. I feel better and sleep well knowing that I practice being a good human being, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Not just on Sundays like many christians that I have met in my life. And believe me, you know who you are. If you sit in judgement of anyone on this earth, and that means homosexuals, women who opt for abortion, people of religions that are unlike your own, etc, etc, then you better stop and take a good look at yourself and what you are believing in. If you sit in judgement of anyone, no matter what the situation, then you better look deeper within yourself and figure out what made you that way. None of you know where you are headed after this life so make the most of this one. Your dying patient is asking that you just be there while he makes his final preparations to exit this earth. Where he goes next, none of us truely knows. If we did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

very well said, and i agree.

because of my beliefs, i am certainly not embraced in the Christian faith.

but because i am God-loving and God-seeking, i'll just continue to keep the love between God and me.

but it's so very true: no one has the right to judge. there's alot of hypocrisy out there.

leslie

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This whole thread has made me realize that it is a "them and us" world out there. I'm bad because I don't believe and you are all GOOD because you do. I do not understand this. We all live on this planet and we all must get along and part of that getting along is having a great respect for what others believe...and don't believe. Being religous is very different than being spiritual. The christians think that if you are athiest, you are a bad person...devil like. I used to believe deeply, so I have been on both sides of this fence. I feel better and sleep well knowing that I practice being a good human being, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Not just on Sundays like many christians that I have met in my life. And believe me, you know who you are. If you sit in judgement of anyone on this earth, and that means homosexuals, women who opt for abortion, people of religions that are unlike your own, etc, etc, then you better stop and take a good look at yourself and what you are believing in. If you sit in judgement of anyone, no matter what the situation, then you better look deeper within yourself and figure out what made you that way. None of you know where you are headed after this life so make the most of this one. Your dying patient is asking that you just be there while he makes his final preparations to exit this earth. Where he goes next, none of us truely knows. If we did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I guess it just depends on where you sit, as usual.

I truly don't see this thread as "us vs. them" and that atheists or agnostics are bad and Christians are good.

And the admonishment not to sit in judgment goes back onto you too and your post above is "judgmental" of Christians.

I've never really understood this "no judgment" thing . . . if you don't have values or rules or laws or discernment THEN maybe you could find that place where no one ever judges another's behavior or actions.

I don't think such a place exists except maybe in Heaven.

No one says Christians are perfect. Or anyone religious or spiritual is perfect and w/o defect or imperfections or problems.

I'm of course dealing with a 16 year old who is, as I mentioned, questioning her belief in God. I see this as a normal occurance. However, I'm always hit in the head with her accusing people of being hypocrites. That people who go to church make mistakes, gossip, get grumpy, lash out in anger, cuss, fail. Well honey, welcome to the wonderful world of being a human being. Are the folks she hangs around with at school perfect? Do they gossip? Does she ever get her feelings hurt by her friends (yes, all the time to that last one).

I think the problem would come if someone professes a certain value system, makes a mistake and then never admits it and tries to do better. I profess a certain value system, I make mistakes, I admit it and try to do better. That's about all a person can do to make things right.

steph

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I guess it just depends on where you sit, as usual.

I truly don't see this thread as "us vs. them" and that atheists or agnostics are bad and Christians are good.

And the admonishment not to sit in judgment goes back onto you too and your post above is "judgmental" of Christians.

I've never really understood this "no judgment" thing . . . if you don't have values or rules or laws or discernment THEN maybe you could find that place where no one ever judges another's behavior or actions.

I don't think such a place exists except maybe in Heaven.

No one says Christians are perfect. Or anyone religious or spiritual is perfect and w/o defect or imperfections or problems.

I'm of course dealing with a 16 year old who is, as I mentioned, questioning her belief in God. I see this as a normal occurance. However, I'm always hit in the head with her accusing people of being hypocrites. That people who go to church make mistakes, gossip, get grumpy, lash out in anger, cuss, fail. Well honey, welcome to the wonderful world of being a human being. Are the folks she hangs around with at school perfect? Do they gossip? Does she ever get her feelings hurt by her friends (yes, all the time to that last one).

I think the problem would come if someone professes a certain value system, makes a mistake and then never admits it and tries to do better. I profess a certain value system, I make mistakes, I admit it and try to do better. That's about all a person can do to make things right.

steph

you are right that no place exists where people don't judge one another, that is what being a human being is all about. what i was trying to say was..when i was very young...i was raised to believe that if you didn't believe in god, you were bad, that you must worship the devil. these are the evil beliefs that were drilled into my head as a young child and as an adult (who also has 4 daughters who are all questioning their spirituality so i can relate to what you are saying)I would never want my child to grow up thinking that way. It has taken me years to get that prejudice out of my system. and now i tend to lean in the other direction. i so want to believe that there is life after this one as i enjoy my life so much. but there is a side of me that does not think so. i have just never connected with a higher power and i don't know if i ever will. i think some people do and some don't. the message i was trying to get across is that it is important that we all do as good as we can each and everyday and to get the most out of the days we have. i think our patients are a good reminder to us that life is precious and not a minute should be wasted. As far as I'm concerned, the world will be a much better place when everyones skin is a nice shade of cinnamon. After that, I guess we just need to work on everything else.

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you are right that no place exists where people don't judge one another, that is what being a human being is all about. what i was trying to say was..when i was very young...i was raised to believe that if you didn't believe in god, you were bad, that you must worship the devil. these are the evil beliefs that were drilled into my head as a young child and as an adult (who also has 4 daughters who are all questioning their spirituality so i can relate to what you are saying)I would never want my child to grow up thinking that way. It has taken me years to get that prejudice out of my system. and now i tend to lean in the other direction. i so want to believe that there is life after this one as i enjoy my life so much. but there is a side of me that does not think so. i have just never connected with a higher power and i don't know if i ever will. i think some people do and some don't. the message i was trying to get across is that it is important that we all do as good as we can each and everyday and to get the most out of the days we have. i think our patients are a good reminder to us that life is precious and not a minute should be wasted. As far as I'm concerned, the world will be a much better place when everyones skin is a nice shade of cinnamon. After that, I guess we just need to work on everything else.

I'm sorry about the way you were raised. It was wrong to say that to a child. Jesus said (and he was an actual person with good things to say, whether you believe he was God or not)

"When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." Mark 10:14. Also, "Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me." Mark 9:37

The whole message of God, to me, is that human beings are of great value. That is one of the messages I try to instill into my kids - especially my daughter - that she has value and should never sell herself short - I have to talk about that alot because she is 16 and boys are interested in her. :uhoh3:

steph

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Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

When it comes to being a good nurse, I feel that knowing yourself and your beliefs are very important no matter what they are. They will be the foundation for things you will see...and we all know we see some pretty heartwreching things in our careers. Especially when it comes to death...it is good to have a grasp on your personal belief system in order to overcome the emotion or thoughts spilling out and get yourself back on tract.

As far as patients...same thing. It is helpful to know their religions or spiritual needs..but not totally necessary in this day and age. Many facilities have resources for many different religous organizations that will come and console a patient. Normally for me I ask my patients if this is a resource they would wish to try...and I have had to find spiritual help for many religions, some of which I never knew about!

I keep my own faith personal, and I don't share that with patients...just doesn't seem right to me. That is something of mine that is special and mine alone...and considering how much I have to give of myself for patients...this one...well, I leave that one for myself!

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When it comes to being a good nurse, I feel that knowing yourself and your beliefs are very important no matter what they are. They will be the foundation for things you will see...and we all know we see some pretty heartwreching things in our careers. Especially when it comes to death...it is good to have a grasp on your personal belief system in order to overcome the emotion or thoughts spilling out and get yourself back on tract.

This reminded me of nursing school - we were challenged to figure out our value system, not just spiritual but in other areas. We needed to know where we stood on many issues because they all would come up in nursing.

Illegal drug use. Alcoholism. Child abuse. Spousal abuse.

Praying with patients - I'm sure it came up - but I can't remember.

steph

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