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Are We Too PC?

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traumaRUs has 25 years experience as a MSN, APRN and works as a Asst Community Manager @ allnurses.

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Have we become a nation of slugs, so offended by a simple old-time Christmas song that we want to ban it from the radio? Where does this leave us in real life? You are reading page 6 of Are We Too PC?. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

nursej22 has 30 years experience as a MSN, RN and works as a royal pain in the tuchus.

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And that too is YOUR choice - we should have the choice to listen or not listen. However, to censure it and say its offensive to EVERYONE and NO ONE should listen to it is ridiculous - IMHO its simply a cute song from many years ago

I personally never said it should be censured, or censored. I said I don't care for it and won't listen to it.

But I think it's okay to have a conversation about the lyrics, as we are doing.

And, I don't think it's a Christmas song, either.

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KatieMI has 6 years experience as a BSN, MSN and works as a Internal Medicine.

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"If thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought".

George Orwell

Then the opposite must be the truth as well. And if that is so, we surely must live in paradise itself. Just look at all those wonderful works of language - the Bible, the Quran, the Torah, the Constitution of the USA, etc., etc.

How much they REALLY change thoughts? How about billions of people being killed in their holy names for centuries?

As a person who lived for quite a while in Orwellian society, I can tell you that the language can corrupt you only as much as you allow it to happen. Don't allow it - aka use your brains as intended - and you'll be just fine.

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Orion81RN has 5 years experience.

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Just wanted to clear this up: I'm extremely well travelled, have served in the military, practiced nursing in multiple countries and settings with multiple cultures. The US is TOO PC

And that's your opinion that you're free to have and voice in this country. Just as my opinion that physically pulling on somebody repeatedly to get them to stay is...a little rapey. I'm being hyperbolic by that, but...the opinion is my right to have.

I understand your viewpoint. You've experienced first hand what it's like to not get the freedoms we have. So it scares you a bit when you see in America what can be interpreted as suppression of our freedoms. A feeling of "Oh, hell no. Not in my America." I get that completely.

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Orion81RN has 5 years experience.

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I've never heard that song before now and I must admit that listening to it annoyed the **** out of me. Mostly because it was painfully repetitious. Should it be banned though? No. I can change stations.

It's interesting how differently we perceive things. I don't really see it as more "innocent" than today. I just find whatever games those two couples are playing, irksome and repressed. For ***** sake, if you're attracted to someone, just come out and say it. That's the easiest way to find out if the attraction is mutual. First couple I see a man who's dense as a log. The second couple I see a woman who's equally dense. If someone keeps trying to put on their jacket and leave, chances are they aren't that into you.

People who beat around the bush annoy me. A lot. And as far as I'm concerned, people who keep pulling your arm in order to stop you from leaving when you've made your intent clear, have earned themselves a no, a swat and a smack (in that order, as needed). While I'm semi jesting here, it should be noted that physically preventing a person from going where they're trying to go, is in most cases a criminal offense. (Well, unless you keep on singing at/to them in a jolly manner, in which case I guess it's okay :sarcastic:)

I still don't think the song should be banned, but I guess it's safe to say that I won't be downloading that tune any time soon :lol2:

Before I can even begin to answer that, we'd have to agree on what "PC" even is.

I have a feeling that if you asked ten posters to try to actually define what PC means, we'd get ten different versions.

I also think that in some instances, some people stick the label PC on others, as a lazy copout when they don't want to or aren't able to support their own viewpoint in a rational and cogent manner. It's easy to just dismiss someone's position as being "PC", instead of accepting that the other person feels differently than oneself, based on their own opinions and personal values/convictions, rather then being "politically correct".

Was there a clear definition of the term PC provided in this survey, or were respondents answering with their own personal/individual definition in mind?

*** Could someone here who thinks we are too PC, give me ten clear examples (even five will do :)) of things they would like to be able to say, but feel they aren't able to, without being struck down be the "PC brigade"?

I genuinely don't understand what PC means. Because I never feel curtailed or hemmed in. I feel that I can speak my mind and if someone objects it's usually because they have a different opinon than I, which is fine. It's not normally for the way I way it. I can't identify with this feeling of being restricted by what's PC, so I'd really appreciate if someone could give concrete examples.

Personally, when I do manage to offend, it's normally because I intended to offend (or at a minimum, didn't care if I did). It doesn't just, oops, just happen... I can't blame that on anyone else, or hide beind that I don't like this "PC nonsense". I always try to own the insults I deliver. I'm responsible for them.

@traumaRUs. I've never seen you be anything but well-mannered and civilized on this board. I assume that you're not habitually offensive to others in real life as well? I guess that just as with the term PC, we have to find a common definition for what's offending to others, cause I simply don't see being offensive as being something you do.

Personally and generally speaking, I find it's always a good idea to think before I/one speak/s :)

I was commenting to something on FB and used the term black to refer to race. A black person commented sarcastically, "I didn't know we were colors." Implying I should have said African American. Ironically enough I intentionally used the word black because not long before I heard someone ******** about THAT. And to be honest their point was valid. Not everyone of black skin color is AMERICAN.

And then there's a good friend of mine who is half Puerto Rican half Guatemalan. I used the term Hispanic once, not referring to her...and boy did she lay into me. Because HIS Spanic means HIS Spaniard and some other blah blah blah. So it is Latino. I have heard plenty Latinos say Hispanic.

It's politically incorrect to say girls instead of women. While I understand the viewpoint a bit, I think it's taken too far. Mayim Bialik has a YT video on it, and I understood her point. But at 37 years old, if I'm going out to a movie with my mom and sister, I'm going to say it's a girl's night out.

Using the term handicapped. Seriously? My feelings about a person don't change whether I say they are handicapped or have a disability.

Calling someone psycho or crazy....nope, can't do that bc there ARE people with mental health issues.

Saying retard is politically incorrect.

Incorrect use of Miss, Ms. and Mrs.

Dressing up as an Indian for Halloween

I'm sure there are supposed anti-PC people out there who will pick and choose anong those in that list of which to be offended by, and claim their right to do so while still claim to be anti-PC. Because, again, if it offends THEM, it must be inherently offensive. There are some on the list I came up with that I agree with. Some I disagree with. So I just won't say I'm anti PC. Because it's warranted at times. You shouldn't describe someone as fat even if it's true and you don't mean it to be an insult.

Just try to not offend people without having to go completely out of your way by doing so. And *when*someone inevitably gets offended, they have the right to voice it. That way we all keep our freedoms while simultaneously not being jerks.

Edited by sirI
TOS language

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macawake has 10 years experience.

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The song doesn't make me think of date rape but rather that I'm glad that I wasn't young in that era. Since I've never been shy about stating what I want, I probably wouldn't have been very content to live in such a repressed state where game playing and fake coyness was the norm and the expectation. I guess I welcome the "decadence " with open arms ;)

Edited by AN Admin Team
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PMHNP10 has 6 years experience and works as a Psych NP.

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I'm certain I'll offend but here goes. Society is like a person with a borderline personality in that things are black or white and shades of gray do not exist. The pendulum swings too far in one direction and forces exert their effort to bring things in the other direction, which happens, but then things swing too far in the other direction. Then wash, rinse, repeat. I'd contend amongst a few other reasons this is why the US has the POTUS we have...as a counterbalance to extreme shift to the culture of everyone is a victim, they should embrace victim hood, they should rejoice in this, and everyone should be offended. It never ceases to amaze me to see how far virtue signaling SJW's will go. You can never be in full compliance with the pc culture because the goal post is constantly moved. And no this song isn't an isolated incident, it's happening across this planet and sadly it's not even one of the most extreme examples IMO (thinking specifically of the idea of incarcerating an individual for calling a transitioning male to female, a he or some other scientifically correct pronoun as 1 example). I value the US Constitution/Bill of Rights; single most important document to date. It is the foundation of this great nation. Amongst many rights/freedoms it grants us,freedom of speech is included and our courts have determined there is no such thing as hate speech and only restricts that freedom in limited capacity (e.g., yelling fire in a crowded building). Now should we conduct ourselves as civilized human beings by not calling our fellow man (oops I think I committed a micro aggression) any number of derogatory names; of course. But our current course in this country is certainly worthy of concern, not just because of where things are headed present day but because the farther the pendulum swings in its current direction; the more momentum it has to swing the other direction. Terrifying. I'm all about diversity of thought and the uniqueness of every human being in general but this is one instance I wish we were all kinda moderate, common sense oriented.

Edited by PMHNP10

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3ringnursing has 25 years experience as a BSN and works as a RN.

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Very cute vids!

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The world is becoming full of people claiming to be offended when in actuality they are trying to present themselves as special. If you have to be told that "White Christmas" refers to a Christmas (a December holiday) with snow then you are LOOKING for something to complain about. Instead of being

"offended" people would be better off giving of themselves and taking an active roll in making this world a better place to live.

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Duranie works as a Homemaker, currently.

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I actually do not like that song, and as a pp said, it's a little rapey.

What do we teach young people, No means no, unless it's in a catchy little tune?

And how about the line, " say what's in this drink?" Is that not a reference to being rufied?

At the time this song was first released there was no such thing as a "roofie"....

you could "slip someone a mickey" (a.k.a. choral hydrate)... Of course, that did make them sleepy, although relatively slowly. It also didn't have the amnesiac effect of a date rape drug.

"What's in this drink?" is more likely related to the fact that it was expected that women's drinks were typically made weaker... most people believed that a dainty woman wouldn't like a strong "man's" drink, and if she did it was implied that she was an alcoholic. So I would take the line to mean: "what are you trying to do, get me drunk?"

{just an fyi: My grandmother owned a bar, and she said that there was a time when even women who hung out in bars wouldn't be caught dead doing shots, or even drinking things that were considered masculine, like a whiskey sour or a martini. The novelty martinis were invented so women would feel more comfortable ordering them.}

I've been date raped, and believe me, there was no playful banter, no flirtaceous fun, no asking, really, at all. He didn't try to talk me into it, or convince me that we should. He simply made up his mind that we would be having sex, and from that point on, nothing I said mattered. There were no cute comebacks, or witty retorts. Actually, he said very little- "stop fighting... it'll feel good if you stop fighting it" (it didn't) ... "Every woman I'm with says I'm like a god..." (he wasn't) .... and a few other similar self-aggrandizing comments. And I guarantee you, I wasn't making any cute quips either. I sure as h**l wasn't smiling.

I think one part of the problem comes from trying to frame things from the past in the context of today's world. The "Deck the Halls" example is perfect: Instead of using the opportunity to explain to kids that the word "gay" has changed in meaning, somehow it is preferable to let children misunderstand the word by using today's common definition. We sell our children short if we don't believe that they can comprehend that language can (and does) evolve.

We should use these cultural artifacts to understand the past. Once we understand how society has evolved, we can use that knowledge to make our future better.

I do find it funny how many people abhor politics and politicians... but those same people will jump right on to the "Political correctness" bandwagon. Apparently, no one thinks about where the term comes from... The idea being that politicians have to be able to speak in euphemisms and use vocabulary that will avoid possibly offending anyone at all. How's that for irony. :rolleyes:

And one other point- - there no such thing as "a little rapey" ... it's like being a little bit of a virgin.... It either is rape or it's not. Period. Full stop. :bag:

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traumaRUs has 25 years experience as a MSN, APRN and works as a Asst Community Manager @ allnurses.

505 Likes; 14 Followers; 127 Articles; 184,986 Visitors; 20,508 Posts

I personally never said it should be censured, or censored. I said I don't care for it and won't listen to it.

But I think it's okay to have a conversation about the lyrics, as we are doing.

And, I don't think it's a Christmas song, either.

Agree discussion is good. Thanks for your thoughts.

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traumaRUs has 25 years experience as a MSN, APRN and works as a Asst Community Manager @ allnurses.

505 Likes; 14 Followers; 127 Articles; 184,986 Visitors; 20,508 Posts

And that's your opinion that you're free to have and voice in this country. Just as my opinion that physically pulling on somebody repeatedly to get them to stay is...a little rapey. I'm being hyperbolic by that, but...the opinion is my right to have.

I understand your viewpoint. You've experienced first hand what it's like to not get the freedoms we have. So it scares you a bit when you see in America what can be interpreted as suppression of our freedoms. A feeling of "Oh, hell no. Not in my America." I get that completely.

Thanks for your thoughts. Wanted to clear up that when I mention I have lived oversease in three other countries for prolonged periods of times (years) that I appreciate what THEY consider to be offensive and ensure that I don't unintentionally violate their cultural mores.

Banning a song that is over 50 years old from another time is like trying to erase history. While the US does have parts of history that I'm sure the majority of citizens would like to erase that is where we come from, we have progressed, learned from our mistakes and moved on. However, to say those negative parts of history didn't exist is not right.

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klone has 13 years experience as a MSN, RN and works as a Director of OB Services.

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I've only read through the second page, but I wanted to put in my thoughts. The OP and many of the responses don't sit well with me. In my experience, the outcry of "We're too PC" is a euphemism for "I want to be able to say whatever I want to whomever, and **** 'em if it offends anyone." Yes, I DO think it's important to be racially, culturally, generationally sensitive. Yes, I DO think it's okay to go through life actually being sensitive to one's words and avoiding offending others whenever possible. It's actually no skin off my nose to make an effort to do that. Again, in my experience, the outcry of "our country is too PC" comes from a position of privilege.

And the last paragraph about helping patients with transportation to their appointments has nothing to do with "PC culture". I'm not even sure why that was added, because it seemed like a weird and random non sequitur.

The only people I see getting butthurt about "Happy Holidays" vs. "Merry Christmas" are the people who seem to get offended at the idea of being inclusive. Who's it hurting to say "Happy Holidays" really? I might add that as an atheist, it doesn't offend me in the least if someone wishes me a Merry Christmas. And I have yet to meet anyone who got upset at being wished a Merry Christmas. It appears to me that the "war on Christmas" is a completely contrived notion that really doesn't exist, but was fabricated by the people who want to rail about "we're too PC!!" Sort of like the comment about how you can't call them "Easter eggs" in Seattle. Um, no. That's really not a thing.

Edited by klone

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