Are Student Nurses Prepared for "Real Life?'

RN1982 · Jul 7, 2008

Oh goodness no -- absolutely not.
I don't think either is better -- if you have passed the boards, then you are an RN in my eyes. I was just trying to make the point that there are differences between an ADN and BSN programs. One difference I can attest to -- BSN programs make their students take some ridiculous classes that are useless to their practice.

Thank you for clarifying that. You will find that after you graduate and pass your boards a lot of the stuff you learned in your program is completely useless. In my opinion, nursing school lays the ground work of your career. What you learn in the "real world" of nursing, you will not have learned in school.

MikeyJ, RN · Jul 7, 2008

i'd like to see sources for both comments.
mikey, you can't profess your assertions as fact, and not have backup.
leslie

I have contacted different childrens hospitals (CHOP, Phoenix Childrens, Children's Hospital Boston, Childrens Hospital San Diego) that all told me that they are moving toward BSN prepared nurses. I contacted many different children's hospitals because wasn't sure where I wanted to work after I graduated.

In fact, CHOP said that 95% of their nurses are either BSN or are in BSN programs.

A few of my Ph.D. instructors told our class that the reason some hospitals are trying to move toward BSN nurses and are strongly pushing their nurses to get their BSN is because many do not look at the nursing profession as professional because a profession cannot be deemed "professional" with the majority of its professional with associate degrees. I am unsure of how true that is. (And I am not agreeing with this comment -- again... I think ADN and BSN nurses are one in the same :) )

MikeyJ, RN · Jul 7, 2008

Thank you for clarifying that. You will find that after you graduate and pass your boards a lot of the stuff you learned in your program is completely useless. In my opinion, nursing school lays the ground work of your career. What you learn in the "real world" of nursing, you will not have learned in school.

Totally agree. All of nursing is learned on the job. Very little of it is taught in nursing school.

GrumpyRN63, ADN, RN · Jul 7, 2008

although it sounds like some of the more experienced nurses here went through some magic nursing school that turned out perfect super nurses who knew everything and never struggled during their first year or two. i guess that school went out of business.

huh?? are you reading the same thread?? i didn't read one poster that said/insinuated they came out of school knowing everything and "never struggled", who are you referring to, every single poster admitted to not being prepared and struggling :confused:

BradleyRN · Jul 7, 2008

...it is a known fact that ADN programs focus very heavily on skills and less on the theory and critical thinking.

I tend to believe the exact opposite from experience. My RN program spent about 70% of the time on critical thinking. The other 30% we spent at the hospital being grilled over that critical thinking that we had learned. Add that together and we probably spent 90% of our program critical thinking. Our instructors put the least emphasis on actual skills because anybody can be taught to insert a catheter or give an IM injection.

leslie :-D · Jul 7, 2008

I have contacted different childrens hospitals (CHOP, Phoenix Childrens, Children's Hospital Boston, Childrens Hospital San Diego) that all told me that they are moving toward BSN prepared nurses. I contacted many different children's hospitals because wasn't sure where I wanted to work after I graduated.
In fact, CHOP said that 95% of their nurses are either BSN or are in BSN programs.
A few of my Ph.D. instructors told our class that the reason some hospitals are trying to move toward BSN nurses and are strongly pushing their nurses to get their BSN is because many do not look at the nursing profession as professional because a profession cannot be deemed "professional" with the majority of its professional with associate degrees. I am unsure of how true that is. (And I am not agreeing with this comment -- again... I think ADN and BSN nurses are one in the same :) )

i am definitely not disputing that many employers prefer, or even require bsn nurses.

what i did question is that adn nurses were skilled whereas bsn nurses were trained in critical thinking...

it was the prep of ea program that i questioned.

but for sure, bsn is the way to go...

only because this is what employers are leaning towards.

leslie

RN1982 · Jul 7, 2008

I don't think what your professors claim to be true is true. Since when is an ADN not professional. You know, I blame the ANA for this crap. They are always trying to push BSN for everything. Well, hello, it's not always easy or convienent to get into and go through a BSN program. It's not easy or convienent to go through an ADN program. I'm so glad Michigan left that organization. All talk, no action. In the ANA's eyes, ADN prepared nurses are just dogs with RN attached to their name.

vashtee, RN · Jul 7, 2008

it is a known fact that ADN programs focus very heavily on skills and less on the theory and critical thinking.

Known fact? It's certainly news to me! :eek:

ADPIE10 · Jul 7, 2008

Many of the student nurses I have encountered lately appear to be ill-prepared for the real world.What is going on? What are these students being taught and prepared for? Ex: Student drawing up 5 cc of insulin thinking it's 5 units. What are they doing????

I don't think that a negative experience with a student nurse is a reflection of all schools and all nurses. There are always those amongst us that aren't on the ball. I've observed nurses in E.R. that vocationally knew what to do, but didn't understand why.

The two nursing schools in my county are pretty good. Prior to being admitted to the nursing program, I was required to take pharmacology for nursing. We were repeatedly trained to administer insulin with a tuberculin syringe and were required to know the sequence of drawing regular and NPH insulin. Just because it's taught and graded doesn't mean that all students learn the rules.

The nice thing is that you are referring to a "student" nurse. It's important for licensed nurses to be patient and help those of us training for the profession. Students are apprentices, not journeyman. Students are not paid, but instead pay to be taught. Those that have the privilege of teaching students have the opportunity to leave a lasting positive impression. RN's have the opportunity to initiate their future team members and encourage an environment of patience, learning, and care.

MisterSimba, BSN · Jul 7, 2008

I don't think that a negative experience with a student nurse is a reflection of all schools and all nurses. There are always those amongst us that aren't on the ball. I've observed nurses in E.R. that vocationally knew what to do, but didn't understand why.
The two nursing schools in my county are pretty good. Prior to being admitted to the nursing program, I was required to take pharmacology for nursing. We were repeatedly trained to administer insulin with a tuberculin syringe and were required to know the sequence of drawing regular and NPH insulin. Just because it's taught and graded doesn't mean that all students learn the rules.
The nice thing is that you are referring to a "student" nurse. It's important for licensed nurses to be patient and help those of us training for the profession. Students are apprentices, not journeyman. Students are not paid, but instead pay to be taught. Those that have the privilege of teaching students have the opportunity to leave a lasting positive impression. RN's have the opportunity to initiate their future team members and encourage an environment of patience, learning, and care.

Well said! :redbeathe

I'm not in nursing school yet, but hopefully will be next year. I volunteer on an oncology floor and sometimes when I'm not super busy, I get to watch nurses start IV's, flush G-tubes, replace the needle on a port-a-cath, etc... The nurses on the floor I'm on right now are amazing, and when they have time, will let me come with them and learn about procedures, etc. I'm so glad I'm getting this exposure before I start nursing school, otherwise I would feel completely clueless!

I will be applying to a couple of Accelerated BSN programs that are 12 months long. Is this a bad idea? One of them is Mount St. Mary's in LA, which has a really good reputation, but I'm still scared!

ADPIE10 · Jul 7, 2008

Exactly what my BSN program does -- it focuses very very heavily on critical thinking and gives us the knowledge to think our way through a situation.
There are many hospitals around the country that have done away with hiring ADN nurses for this reason (I have nothing against ADN nurses) but it is a known fact that ADN programs focus very heavily on skills and less on the theory and critical thinking.

You sound very knowledgeable. From what sources of scholarly papers or research studies do you base your opinion?

My understanding with regard to the preference is one based upon a hospital's desire to achieve Magnet status. Some hospitals are aggressively pushing their ADN nurses through BSN programs on-site with cooperation from major universities.

Amusingly, many hospitals around the country aggressively hired nurses that graduated from universities in other countries. What does this say about Hospitals and the wisdom of their assessment regarding BSN vs ADN vs Foreign BSN?

I personally don't place too much faith and confidence in the wisdom of hospital administrators as a basis of support for my arguments. :saint:

RedhairedNurse, BSN, RN · Jul 7, 2008

i am definitely not disputing that many employers prefer, or even require bsn nurses.
what i did question is that adn nurses were skilled whereas bsn nurses were trained in critical thinking...
it was the prep of ea program that i questioned.
but for sure, bsn is the way to go...
only because this is what employers are leaning towards.
leslie

Just yesterday, I heard the opposite of what you say. My preceptor told me that RNs, whether they have BSN or ADN, are trained as critical thinkers, whereas LVNs are more task focused and are not trained to look at the "big picture" and/or be "critical thinkers". I have my ADN and we were most certainly trained in critical thinking. I don't think there is any difference in BSN or ADN other than the management classes offered with a BSN degree. And this is what my nursing instructor also said about the BSN vs ADN role.