Are you paid for required early clock in and clock out?

chare · Sep 21, 2023

Based on your posted clock in range of 0638 - 0652 I presume your shift start and end time are 0645 and 1915.

Legally an employer can round hours worked for payroll purposes, as long as it is applied when it iss advantageous to the employee as well.

Assuming your shift times are 0645 and 1915. If you clock in between 0638 - 0652 your shift start time will be recorded as 0645. Similarly, if you out between 1908 - 1922 your shift end time will be recorded as 1915.

NurseKole · Sep 21, 2023

We are only paid for 7-7 though. that is what is confusing me

chare · Sep 21, 2023

Are you paid 7 to 7? Or is this a 12 hour day shift 0700 - 1900, with the 30 minute lunch broken into two 15 minute periods, one before and after the shift hours as opposed to 30 minutes attached to the end of the shift.

Either way, if the are rounding you can clock in at 0652 and out at 1908 and be paid for your 12 hours.

klone, MSN, RN · Sep 22, 2023

By most timecard systems, a clock in between 0638-0652 would register as an 0645 clock-in (and a clock in at 0653 or later would register as 0700), and a clock-out between 1908-1922 would register as a 1915 clock out (and a clock out at 1907 would register as 1900). So technically, your hours are 0645 to 1915. Most places that do 12s, people's hours are 0700 to 1930 (12 hour shift and 30 minutes extra for lunch). So your organization has decided to shift it back by 15 minutes, but you still technically work a 12.5 hour shift. Makes sense to me. Not sure why they don't just call it 0645-1915, though, to save people confusion.

Been there,done that, ASN, RN · Sep 22, 2023

The bottom line is , we are professionals. Administration should not be dinking us around with minutes on the time clock. I can assure you.. this is to make them money.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Sep 23, 2023

U.S. Employers have specific federal Department of Labor (DOL) regulations they must follow for non-exempt = hourly employees regarding time-clocks and hours worked, especially rounding hours. Learned these regs when Manager responsible for 30 staff time clock approvals.

Just a minute: Do you understand DOL time-clock rules?

Fact Sheet #53 – The Health Care Industry and Hours Worked

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Rounding Hours Worked

Some employers track employee hours worked in 15 minute increments, and the FLSA allows an employer to round employee time to the nearest quarter hour. However, an employer may violate the FLSA minimum wage and overtime pay requirements if the employer always rounds down. Employee time from 1 to 7 minutes may be rounded down, and thus not counted as hours worked, but employee time from 8 to 14 minutes must be rounded up and counted as a quarter hour of work time See Regulations 29 CFR 785.48(b)

Use this information to educate yourself in discussions with your managers responsible for approving time card punches/hours worked.

Followup the chain of command when necessary to get paid for all hours worked, including lunches when not totally relieved for 30 minute lunchtime.

DOL: How to File a complaint

mtmkjr, BSN · Sep 23, 2023

Been there,done that said:

The bottom line is , we are professionals. Administration should not be dinking us around with minutes on the time clock. I can assure you.. this is to make them money.

I don't think it's about being professional or not? The alternative would be to switch to exempt status for staff nurses where there would be no accounting of the minutes. But then you would not get paid for the extra minutes that you stay over. Believe me the employer would take advantage of that!

As an exempt employee I get to enjoy working 45 to 50 hours a week and being paid for 40. I don't think most staff nurses would put up with that.

These labor laws are not put into place by the employer but they have to follow strict pay practices.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Sep 24, 2023

Depending on how salty I'm feeling I may ask if the manager works for free

I don't work for free. If something like a fall happens on shift change, I'll stay to get the incident form and falls pathway started. But thats the exception not the rule

I have a colleage who regularly stays late up to an hour unpaid.

IMO your manager is taking the piss.

If they want you to come in early, they need to pay you for your time.

chare · Sep 24, 2023

Tenebrae said:

[...]

If they want you to come in early, they need to pay you for your time.

The OP's not coming in early, nor is he or she not being paid for their time.

As @klone and @NRSKarenRN explained in their posts, completely legal. I've worked several places that did this, and initially though this unfair. And, as it appeared to favor the employer I kept a spreadsheet documenting my hours worked. Both exactly as I clocked in/out and rounding, and it was quickly obvious that either way they averaged out.

Tenebrae said:

[...]

IMO your manager is taking the piss.

[...]

What does this mean? I've seen this before and know it doesn't mean that he or she is micturating.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Sep 25, 2023

chare said:

The OP's not coming in early, nor is he or she not being paid for their time.

As @klone and @NRSKarenRN explained in their posts, completely legal.

In the USA perhaps.

You all need better emploiyment laws.

The OP said they are being asked to start early and finish late eg starting before 7am and finishing after 7p,. They should be paid for that time. If they are starting at 655 istead of 653 they get docked 15 minutes

I worked 3 hours today orientating students outside of my normal hours. I get paid for it. The managers don't work for free. Neither do I

Quote

What does this mean? I've seen this before and know it doesn't mean that he or she is micturating.

Its a british/kiwi phrase, basically means the person is taking the other person for a ride,, treating unfairly

Docking a person because they signed in at 654 instead of 653 is completely taking the piss

klone, MSN, RN · Sep 25, 2023

Tenebrae said:

The OP said they are being asked to start early and finish late eg starting before 7am and finishing after 7p,. They should be paid for that time. If they are starting at 655 istead of 653 they get docked 15 minutes

On the other hand, if they start at 0652, they are being paid for an extra 7 minutes that they didn't work (because at 0652, it rounds back to 0645). It goes both ways. There's nothing hinky about it, and it's perfectly legal, and quite common for that 7-minute rounding rule in both directions. Their start time is actually 0645, not 0700.

Tenebrae said:

Depending on how salty I'm feeling I may ask if the manager works for free

And I can practically guarantee that the answer will be yes, they do. I've never met a hospital manager that didn't work AT LEAST 45 hours a week, plus they have 24/7 call. They don't get paid hourly, nor do they get any OT for more than 40 hours. At every place I've worked as a manager, if I broke down my salary into hourly wages based on the number of hours I've worked per week, I have made less than a good 1/3 of the nurses in my unit.