Are there any nurses that are not vaccinated? How to prepare to be safe at work?

kitsune01, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2021

On 7/20/2021 at 2:00 AM, macawake said:

The part about the vaccine affecting women’s fertility is not true.
It’s debunked disinformation but unfortunately it has been widely disseminated.

Here’s a link that discusses this vaccine myth and several other:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

The part about blood clots is true but needs further explaining and context. It’s been established as a probable but extremely rare side effect from some viral vector covid-19 vaccines. Please note that Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not viral vector vaccines, they are mRNA vaccines.

I’ll include a link from the European Medicines Agency (like your FDA) about one of the vaccines approved in Europe and many parts of the world (but not in the U.S.).

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood

The thing is that a Covid-19 infection can also cause various coagulopathies and thrombotic events (like the clots you are worried about) and the risk from a Covid infection is much higher than that of a vaccine. A Covid-19 infection can also cause a host of other complications and of course the ultimate complication, death.

What do you mean when you say that people are still getting sick with the vaccine? As I’m sure you know you can’t catch a Covid infection from a vaccine. That’s just impossible. But if you mean that some people will still be infected by another Covid-19 positive individual despite having been vaccinated, that’s true.

The phase 3 trials showed that the vaccines do not protect 100% against getting an infection, but they offer very good protection against serious illness and death. New data is being gathered and analyzed on a daily basis, and from what we’re seeing so far this is still the case.

Cases are increasing even in parts of the world that are starting to reach a high level of vaccine coverage, but daily deaths are lower in these parts than they were with the same number of cases six months ago. In many of the countries with low vaccine coverage, both cases and deaths are increasing. The surges we’re seeing now are likely connected to the more transmissible Delta variant. This is why it is crucial to get as many people vaccinated, as quickly as possible. The virus will just keep mutating and we need to slow this down.

Worldwide we’ve so far administered well over 3.5 BILLION Covid vaccine doses. We have a huge amount of data available. You write that you worry about long term effects of the vaccines. Vaccine side effects don’t take years to manifest. The time is measured in days, weeks or a couple of months. The reported, suspected side effects will need to be analyzed to determine if there is actually a causal link, so that can add on a couple of weeks or a few months. I don’t know of a single vaccine that has taken several years to reveal their side effects. Can anyone here name one?

@PrettyNerd

? THIS is the post you should read and think about carefully. Everything Macawake says is spot on.

I haven’t posted on here since nursing school but I saw this thread on the email digest and had to respond. I spent most of the last year working in covid units, including in Southern California when we got hammered by the Winter surge. Just because you are young and fit and have a healthy lifestyle doesn’t guarantee you will have a mild case if you get covid. The first time I gave tocilizumab (one of the anti-cytokine drugs used to try to stop ARDS) my patient was late 30s and healthy other than mild hypertension. At that point she’d gone from 4L NC in the ED, to 15L large bore NC, to 15L NC and 15L NRB, to 40L/100% Fi02 HiFlo and not keeping her sats up in less than 24 hours.
She was transferred to stepdown as soon as possible and was in ICU by the next morning, but I believe she avoided intubation and did survive.

From what I’ve been reading, under the current surge in the Deep South the ICUs are full of people like her, because they are much less likely to be vaccinated than the older or sicker people who got hit hardest last Winter. The difference is that patient back in January didn’t have the option of getting vaccinated. People who are young and healthy and vaccinated will occasionally get breakthrough cases, especially with the delta variant, but when they do they are not getting anywhere near sick enough to be hospitalized.

If you want to protect yourself and your patients the best way to do that is to be vaccinated, as well as being diligent about your PPE and hand hygiene. Most nursing home residents are vaccinated at this point, but in the most fragile residents even a mild breakthrough case could be devastating. Last year I saw frail nursing home residents die of covid with mostly clear chest X-rays just because a week of fevers combined with refusing to eat (losing your sense of taste and smell destroys your appetite) burned through what little reserves they had.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 23, 2021

29 minutes ago, underpressure said:

I didn't say I think I'm being lied to. I don't think anyone "collaborated to keep the truth" from me. ? Quit with the conspiracy theory labeling. Yes, lots of vaccines have been given. That doesn't mean we know what the long term effects will be.

Your speculation that there might be awful long term consequences from vaccinating is not based in sound scientific analysis of the available data and evidence...it qualifies as fear mongering.

macawake, MSN · Jul 23, 2021

53 minutes ago, underpressure said:

Yeah, in my opinion. So what. And as far as the rest of your post, I don't know what you're talking about. "Incredible reporting from anonymous people on the internet"?? Questioning the safety of a new vaccine does not = sowing doubts or fears.

Well, to have 100% of all family members affected by serious adverse events that we know are very rare, does in my opinion strain credulity.

45 minutes ago, Undercat said:

3.8 BILLION vaccine doses have ben given in the world. That speaks for itself. Do you believe you are being lied to about it's safety? If you believe that the entire world collaborated to keep the truth from you, well that's just entering the Twilight Zone.

36 minutes ago, underpressure said:

I didn't say I think I'm being lied to. I don't think anyone "collaborated to keep the truth" from me. ? Quit with the conspiracy theory labeling. Yes, lots of vaccines have been given. That doesn't mean we know what the long term effects will be.

If you like the majority of us, believe that no one has collaborated to keep the truth from us, then you realize that vaccine side effects are being monitored, analyzed and correctly reported. Then it would also be logical for you to agree that an entire family being affected by serious side effects, seems extremely unlikely. Yes or no?

We weren’t discussing long term effects, but since you brought them up. Do you have any reason to believe that Covid vaccines will behave drastically differently to all other vaccines that we’ve previously used to try to keep people in good health?

kitsune01, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2021

29 minutes ago, underpressure said:

I didn't say I think I'm being lied to. I don't think anyone "collaborated to keep the truth" from me. ? Quit with the conspiracy theory labeling. Yes, lots of vaccines have been given. That doesn't mean we know what the long term effects will be.

Name one known adverse event from any human vaccine that first shows up more than a month or 2 after the vaccine is administered. Why do you think the mRNA vaccines are special in this regard? That argument was a lot more reasonable in January (although anything that hadn’t shown up in the initial clinical trials had to be very very rare, like the slightly elevated rate of myocarditis in certain populations)

MunoRN, RN · Jul 23, 2021

4 hours ago, Sugarbear55 said:

I am not here to argue with you. I have immunity. I will deal with your worry about the next time when I get there. Please stop with the invalid arguments and explain to me why a person with immunity should take a non approved injection for an illness to which they have immunity. Please enclose references.
As to your quip about being the unluckiest family, I sincerely doubt that .

You do have immunity, but not all immunity is equal.

The reason why vaccination is still recommended for those who have had a recent Covid infection is that the immune response that results from natural immunity is not the same as that of vaccine-imparted immunity.

Natural infection is comparably effective against exposure to Covid viruses that are identical to the version that caused your illness, but less effective against different variants than what caused your illness.

This is because the vaccines trigger a response to a more universal part of the spike protein, whereas natural immunity tends to produce a response that is specific to an individual variant.

You can certainly still have a Covid infection if you are vaccinated, but it is far less likely to be a severe illness and you are less likely to be highly transmissible. Natural immunity doesn't appear to be as effective as a vaccination if you are infected with a different variant.

How Immunity Generated from COVID-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection – NIH Director's Blog

MunoRN, RN · Jul 23, 2021

1 hour ago, underpressure said:

This statement is not helpful or useful. And those who "liked" your post must share your sentiment of trying to belittle people who do not think the same way you do.

It's an accurate statement, the poster reported a cluster of adverse effects which is deserving of study if correct. The poster has reported adverse events that occur in 4 of 1 million vaccine recipients in the case of CVT and 10 of 1 million in the case of GBS and apparently a combined CVT and hemespheric CVA vs Bell's Palsy which has never been known to occur before, all within their immediate family is clearly worthy of further study.

guest1178273 · Jul 23, 2021

1 minute ago, MunoRN said:

It's an accurate statement, the poster reported a cluster of adverse effects which is deserving of study if correct. The poster has reported adverse events that occur in 4 of 1 million vaccine recipients in the case of CVT and 10 of 1 million in the case of GBS and apparently a combined CVT and hemespheric CVA vs Bell's Palsy which has never been known to occur before, all within their immediate family is clearly worthy of further study.

Agreed, but if you fail to the see the sarcasm and intent to belittle in poster's response, there's no reason to comment further.

guest1178273 · Jul 23, 2021

26 minutes ago, macawake said:

Well, to have 100% of all family members affected by serious adverse events that we know are very rare, does in my opinion strain credulity.

If you like the majority of us, believe that no one has collaborated to keep the truth from us, then you realize that vaccine side effects are being monitored, analyzed and correctly reported. Then it would also be logical for you to agree that an entire family being affected by serious side effects, seems extremely unlikely. Yes or no?

We weren’t discussing long term effects, but since you brought them up. Do you have any reason to believe that Covid vaccines will behave drastically differently to all other vaccines that we’ve previously used to try to keep people in good health?

What I think is, that we don't have enough long term evidence of safety.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 23, 2021

3 minutes ago, underpressure said:

What I think is, that we don't have enough long term evidence of safety.

We understand that you think that...you simply haven't offered any facts or evidence which supports the notion that there is cause to be so concerned that vaccination should be delayed or avoided. You are afraid that there might be long term issues with safety without good reason to be concerned. You've offered some information that concerns you but that information doesn't actually sound an alarm for people to be hesitant about vaccinating.

guest1178273 · Jul 23, 2021

23 minutes ago, kitsune01 said:

Name one known adverse event from any human vaccine that first shows up more than a month or 2 after the vaccine is administered. Why do you think the mRNA vaccines are special in this regard? That argument was a lot more reasonable in January (although anything that hadn’t shown up in the initial clinical trials had to be very very rare, like the slightly elevated rate of myocarditis in certain populations)

Why do you think the mRNA vaccines are special in this regard? We've never used mRNA vaccines before. That's why.

klone, MSN, RN · Jul 23, 2021

39 minutes ago, macawake said: Then it would also be logical for you to agree that an entire family being affected by serious side effects, seems extremely unlikely. Yes or no?

Unless the entire family had a weird genetic mutation. See? They thought I was being a smartass. I was being serious. Sort of.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 23, 2021

4 minutes ago, underpressure said:

Why do you think the mRNA vaccines are special in this regard? We've never used mRNA vaccines before. That's why.

Does this reflect distrust in the technology, the safety data or the scientists who developed and promote the vaccines?