Are LVN/LPN programs a waste of time? BSN ultimate goal.

VetmedtoRN · Sep 24, 2020

I think you have to factor in a few different things before you decide on a track. I just got into an ADN program in the North Bay on my first round of applications and start in January. The program I applied to is a lottery system, so once you make the "cut score" for GPA/TEAS etc, it literally is luck of the draw. I think you should assess how long your prereqs will take, how much it will cost and how much you need to work to meet your cost of living. I worked full time as a Vet Assistant and chipped away at my prereqs at a JC for like 3 years because my job pays enough to meet my cost of living and I have previous student loans. I also anticipated the possibility of not getting in on my first try, so I worked toward eligibility for other programs (other ADNs, BSN etc) while I was waiting to hear back on my first apps. Each year that you are done with pre reqs and stuck in the app cycle is another year that you're not an RN. I don't know a lot about LVN programs but I do think that you should start applying for programs as soon as you're able to. IE: SRJC does not require a TEAS score or a CNA license, but Napa Valley College requires both the TEAS and the CNA. I applied to SRJC first because I was eligible, and then did the CNA over Summer term so I would be eligible to apply to Napa if I didn't get in to SRJC. Some programs are straight score based and will be really challenging to get into without excellent grades. Some schools have a mix of lottery selection and score based. Many of the community colleges in the Bay Area have a BSN program that they bridge to. IE: CCSF bridges with SF State, SRJC bridges with Sonoma State. That equals two years for an ADN at a way lower cost, then 1 to 1.5 years at the 4 year school to end up with a BSN. Consider all your options, ultimately the goal is to pass that NCLEX and get that RN! If getting the LVN asap isn't necessary for you to continue working on RN prereqs (need to work to pay for school etc), then I don't see the point. Getting a CNA, PCT, Tele Tech etc job will cost a lot less and require less time invested.

Neo Soldier, BSN, RN · Sep 24, 2020

On 9/23/2020 at 7:39 AM, Michellestudentnurse said:

LVN school is not free.

This right here. LVN school takes time: a year (and up to 18 months).

If you intend to become an RN, then becoming an LVN is unnecessary. You can get a leg up with a CNA certificate (which takes 4-6 weeks at private schools. I recommend this shorter option as opposed to a semester at a community college). Consider applying to BSN programs and community colleges. I would also recommend applying out of state if you can. I didn't have a 4.0 when I applied to RN programs and I was able to get accepted into an out of state BSN program (which I ended up not going to. It was a school in Arkansas).

If possible, move to a different part of CA; maybe a remote area where you'll have a high chance of getting accepted.

neuron · Sep 29, 2020

On 9/22/2020 at 5:36 PM, Nurseguysf said:

Hello,

I am from the San Francisco Bay Area, born and raised! I'm trying to finish my prereqs and have seen a lot of people suggest that LVN/LPN programs "help" one get a better possibility to score points into getting into BSN programs. BSN programs here have years of wait lists or you have to basically have 4.0s, crazy TEAS scores, experience etc. I'm sure many of you already know this. I was also told recently that while Licensed vocational nurses are totally competent and many are amazing at what they do, these roles are basically becoming obsolete in many settings-especially hospitals.

My brother in law, who is a Nurse Practitioner as well as his wife (Doctor) told me to not waste time on an LVN program and to just finish my pre reqs, get a job as a CNA etc. and go for a BSN program.

The thing is.... since they went to school a while ago (2012), I don't think they realize how hard and nearly impossible it is to get into programs. My BIL also had years of experience being an EMT and hospital worker and another bachelors degree prior to getting into his BSN nursing program.

I guess, to all of those who are nurses, in BSN programs... should I go into a 1 year LVN program, while working as a care giver and doing some pre reqs... or should I seriously not waste my time and just focus on being a care giver and do my prereqs?

Thank you so much for your thoughts!

If you get your LVN, you may become 'stuck' as a lot of LVN's work and don't get their RN's. LVN's are restricted in their roles and employment. and it CA, I'm sure it's more so. In San Fran and all of Cal, it probably would be better to do the RN-BSN if you can. On the pro side of being an LVN, you gain experience with medication administration, I.V.'s, assessments, injections (insulin, heparin or otherwise and why you give these) and EMR charting.

rockchickrn, ADN · Sep 29, 2020

You could get your ADN, work a year, then get into an RN to BSN program.

Jeff_keeth · Oct 15, 2020

I would forgo LPN school and get your Associate Degree, Pass NCLEX and then work as an RN and then do online RN to BSN program. Hospitals do not hire LPNS anymore. It will soon be required to have a BSN to work in alot of hospitals. Your employer will probably give you a stipend for your BSN program. Best to you, whatever you decide. jeff.

FiremedicMike, RN, EMT-P · Oct 15, 2020

On 9/24/2020 at 2:45 PM, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

And you know it was purely because of GPA because the school came to you directly and said "you're only getting in as an alternate because your GPA is only 3.7?"

Or do you notice the complete lack of any people who make these decisions for schools backing up the claims?

Just because someone said it on the internet, that doesn't automatically make it true. Know what is true, what these schools tell you when you call and ask.

My program assigns points to your HESI entrance exam and your GPA, then adds them up and accepts the top XX number of candidates based on score..

I tried finding the breakdown of how the points are calculated but I’m unable to do it on my phone..

FiremedicMike, RN, EMT-P · Oct 15, 2020

8 hours ago, Jeff_keeth said:

I would forgo LPN school and get your Associate Degree, Pass NCLEX and then work as an RN and then do online RN to BSN program. Hospitals do not hire LPNS anymore. It will soon be required to have a BSN to work in alot of hospitals. Your employer will probably give you a stipend for your BSN program. Best to you, whatever you decide. jeff.

This is area dependent. I am in a major metro area where LPNs were not hired in hospital for many years but are now being hired again for in-hospital nursing roles.

Maroon horse · Oct 15, 2020

I did LPN so that I can work and get some experience while I finish pre-reqs and during any time when I might be on a waitlist. That’s what works best for my family and situation.

If I were you, however, I would finish the pre-reqs, do the CNA, and try to get into an ADN or BSN. If it’s taking too long or doesn’t work out, then have a second look at LPN.
I would *not* do LPN without finishing pre-reqs! I’ve seen people trap themselves this way. They go straight for LPN (intending to bridge) get a job, and then life gets in the way and they struggle to find the time/motivation to go back to school, especially for “low-level” courses.

turtlesRcool · Oct 16, 2020

On 9/24/2020 at 2:45 PM, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

And you know it was purely because of GPA because the school came to you directly and said "you're only getting in as an alternate because your GPA is only 3.7?"

Or do you notice the complete lack of any people who make these decisions for schools backing up the claims?

Just because someone said it on the internet, that doesn't automatically make it true. Know what is true, what these schools tell you when you call and ask.

My state's community colleges have an extremely competitive RN program. 25% is your TEAS score. 25% is your A&P1 grade. 50% is your nursing prerequisite GPA.

That is literally it. No essay. No interview. No work experiences. Your ranking is based on those three numbers. And if you don't get in, you will be placed on the waitlist in rank order.

I'm sure there are many, many schools around the country with a similarly cut-and-dried admissions formula. In the case of our CCNP, the admissions criteria is laid out very clearly in their published materials, and stated very clearly at in person information sessions (well, pre-COVID info sessions, anyway). Of course, there are also many programs that look at the "whole candidate" and have more subjective admissions factors like essays, but don't doubt that lots of people AREalso being rejected purely because of a GPA that is lower than the other candidates (even if that GPA is still pretty dang good and well over the minimum).

turtlesRcool · Oct 16, 2020

OP, how flexible are you? I realize CA is your home, but the Bay Area is one of the most competitive areas of the country with a ridiculous COL. If you are unencumbered enough, you might seriously think about moving for school and maybe a few years of RN work. You've got a much better chance of getting an RN job in CA as an experienced nurse than as a new grad.

One option might be to pick a few states that interest you, and investigate the public RN programs there (either ADN at a CC or BSN at a state university). There's a chance you could even establish residency there while doing your prerequisites and be eligible for in-state tuition by the time you get to your RN program. Getting a CNA certificate is a pretty fast process, and will allow you to work in healthcare while doing your classes.

HiddencatBSN, BSN · Oct 16, 2020

On 9/24/2020 at 1:48 PM, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

It's getting so tiring reading these same things over and over. First off, no, you don't have to do any of those things. You just have to make the minimum. NO school in the country would set a 2.5 GPA minimum with an 80% on an entrance exam if they were going to only accept 4.0 and a 95%. That's a TON of extra work that they have to do. Trust me, they do not want that. I'd be willing to bet that almost all claims of people being turned down because they didn't meet impossible standards were really turned down because they simply just weren't the best choice. You're more than your grades. They don't care whether or not you can pass classes in school, any idiot can get all As, they care whether or not you're going to get licensed and how you working is going to reflect on their school. If an essay is part of your application, they're not looking for someone listing a bunch of cliches, they're looking for if and how you're going to succeed.

Your GPA only tells half the story about your grades. They expect to see grades dropping in the science classes, because even scientists have to look things up, but then getting a C in your basic composition class where simply just using the school's proofreading resources can turn ANY essay into an A can cause wondering if you're going to be the kind of student that will ask for help in a major that pretty much requires asking for help. Plus GPA isn't even an accurate representation of your grades. It's your grade per semester hour, which means absolutely nothing. It doesn't tell a single thing about your school performance. That's why only the minimum matters.

The reality is that there's more students than there are spots in classes. Schools have to decide who gets in and who doesn't. They're going to look at you completely as a student and make a decision based on that. And realistically, the 3.0 student who was been working with them since their first semester on planning out the classes to take before their application to the program, meeting with them about the grades they got in those classes for advice on retaking or just keeping the grade, who try to be active with their school, is probably going to have a better shot than the 4.0 student that they know nothing else about. They don't want the best grades, they want the best students.

The community college I did my prerequisites had a point system. 9 was the maximum points you could get and 7 was the minimum for acceptance, but because they always had enough people applying who got 9s and 8s that 7s never got accepted and some years having an 8 wasn’t even a guarantee you’d get in. (This school penalized repeating classes for better grades too, btw). If you look closely at admission requirements for ANY program that lists them it usually specifies that the minimum standards are just that and not a guarantee of acceptance and that admission is still competitive.

Neither of the schools I was accepted to looked at me as a whole person- it was strictly grades and test scores and prerequisites. Some programs do interviews but many, many schools are comfortable predicting success in nursing school by grades and test scores and with exit exams common, they have back end screening to prevent folks likely to not be successful on the NCLEX from graduating.

Also, GPA literally tells them your academic performance. Not how hard you had to work to get that level of performance, but how you performed. That’s a good predictor for future performance.

Purple_Clover · Oct 17, 2020

I tell people to make this decision based on finances. If it would greatly benefit you financially (ie you have a short time frame for needing more money), then do the LPN first. If not, do the RN (ASN if you can; BSN if it is practically required in your region) and get it over with.