Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally?

Nurses General Nursing

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I have an old friend from years ago who I now keep in touch with on Facebook. Her posts are fascinating in the amazing variety of conspiracy theories, some outrageous, some maybe partially true. She's a big believer that cannabis oil will cure just about anything and that information of course is being suppressed by the drug companies and the government.

She blames many, if not all, health problems on vaccines. She also subscribes to some disturbing anti-Semitic ideologies, blaming the network of high powered Jews, led by the evil Rothschild family.

I swear, the internet has turned slightly eccentric people into extremists. 30 years ago this woman was into macrobiotics, native Americans, and New Age philosophies.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
Outside of healthcare, I know of no entity that "forces" anyone to get the flu shot.

Ditto Gardasil. It's not compulsory. It's recommended. No states have included Gardasil in the list of required vaccines for public school attendance (thank the Conservative Christian Right for that, good or bad).

Two states and D.C. require the HPV vaccine for public school.

Why Public Schools Should Require the HPV Vaccine - Harvard Health Blog - Harvard Health Publishing

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

Wow, I'm quite surprised! The way the Christian right has a such stronghold on our government, that frankly shocks me that this passed. Thanks for clarifying/correcting me.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
Outside of healthcare, I know of no entity that "forces" anyone to get the flu shot

FYI: The military does and the punishment is a little more severe than just losing your job if you refuse it..

Frankly, I'm wondering why it wasn't taught to you as part of your nursing education.

ARE you a nurse?

I am. Why do you ask? If it's because I have a different view than most of you on here, that doesn't mean I'm not a nurse.

Although I have heard it recently, I don't recall hearing the term back in the Dark Ages when I was in school.

Wow, I'm quite surprised! The way the Christian right has a such stronghold on our government, that frankly shocks me that this passed. Thanks for clarifying/correcting me.

If the Christian Right had a stronghold on our government, do you think abortions by choice would be the law of the land?

Specializes in OB.
I am. Why do you ask? If it's because I have a different view than most of you on here, that doesn't mean I'm not a nurse.

No, it's because you clearly have not grasped and/or accepted basic foundational concepts of science, and throw random straw man arguments about your religious beliefs into the discussion in order to try to distract us from this.

FYI: The military does and the punishment is a little more severe than just losing your job if you refuse it..

Yes! You don't get the option of wearing a mask.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
If the Christian Right had a stronghold on our government, do you think abortions by choice would be the law of the land?

It's much harder to overturn Supreme Court decisions than it is to create new legislation.

Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
Outside of healthcare, I know of no entity that "forces" anyone to get the flu shot.

Ditto Gardasil. It's not compulsory. It's recommended. No states have included Gardasil in the list of required vaccines for public school attendance (thank the Conservative Christian Right for that, good or bad).

In my state, preschool children are required to get a flu shot, or they are excluded from school.

Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
The only significant way that has been found to improve vaccine rates is to make them mandatory. You can see this in states with mandatory vaccine laws versus states without strict mandatory vaccine laws.

Actually, we have a pretty good idea what mandatory flu vaccines and other vaccines do when given over 80 years. It makes people live longer. The flu vaccine has been around for 80 years. The flu vacccine has an extremely high safety profile just like most vaccines. Your analogy of waiting 100 years to mandate vaccines is ridiculous. That is equilavent of saying lets not give ACE Inhibitors as a first line drug treatment until we have a 100 years of studies. It already takes almost 2 decades for research to come into practice. The flu vaccine outside of the military wasn't even mandatory for several decades well after the safety profile was well established with long term studies, cohort studies, retrospective studies etc.

The HPV vacccine can be 100% effective against most HPV strains that cause cervical cancer. It has been around for 11 years now, and every asinine antivaxxer complaint about its safety or that its going to cause promiscuiity has been debunked. In the USA men on average have 7 sexual partners and women 4 in their lifetimes. It makes sense to have a vaccine that can essentially get rid of most HPV infections, prevent the majority of cervical cancers, eliminate HCPs and infants accidental HPV exposure. The question is why wouldn't there be a mandatory HPV vaccine for girls and boys knowing that the safety profile is consistent with the literature and it has all these health benefits.

I'm going to forgive you for using the word ridiculous when attempting to counter my points because you clearly did not understand me, but if it happens again, our discussion will end.

I didn't make an analogy.

My discussion points are not about efficacy or even about safety.

My discussion points are not about whether or not we have ample evidence to advocate for flu shots for everyone.

My discussion points are about what I think is required morally and ethically to override an individual's decision on what goes into his/her body.

On that topic, my point is: The benefit to the community and certainty of benefit must be overwhelmingly great and the certainty of safety to the individual must be overwhelmingly great to justify overriding a person's decision on what goes into his/her body.

And I don't think we are meeting that, or that we're even close when it comes to the flu shot.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
I'm going to forgive you for using the word ridiculous when attempting to counter my points because you clearly did not understand me, but if it happens again, our discussion will end.

I didn't make an analogy.

My discussion points are not about efficacy or even about safety.

My discussion points are not about whether or not we have ample evidence to advocate for flu shots for everyone.

My discussion points are about what I think is required morally and ethically to override an individual's decision on what goes into his/her body.

On that topic, my point is: The benefit to the community and certainty of benefit must be overwhelmingly great and the certainty of safety to the individual must be overwhelmingly great to justify overriding a person's decision on what goes into his/her body.

And I don't think we are meeting that, or that we're even close when it comes to the flu shot.

Asking for a hundred years of evidence before there is enough evidence to suggest something is safe is ridiculous. So I stand by my original statement.

It is ethical to mandate public health standards and practices for everyone when the lack of compliance by a minority of people can have a significant impact on the majority of people in that society. This especially true when the health standard, such as vaccines, has well documented significantly high safety profile.

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
The benefit to the community and certainty of benefit must be overwhelmingly great and the certainty of safety to the individual must be overwhelmingly great to justify overriding a person's decision on what goes into his/her body.

And I don't think we are meeting that, or that we're even close when it comes to the flu shot.

What makes you think that vaccines are not overwhelmingly safe or effective? Please share your sources.

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