Application denied by California BRN

morningglory123 · Oct 31, 2014

Is it possible to withdraw altogether so that when you apply to another state and are faced with the question, "Have you ever applied and been denied licensure in another state," you could answer "no" truthfully? Does anyone know the answer to this?

I'm sure you know this, but just to validate how you probably feel...It is plain unfair and almost unethical to punish someone again for something they did 10 years ago before they ever thought about being a nurse. Further, to subject that person to probationary terms/punishment for the offense(s) they committed that long ago and have since had them formally dismissed by the law and judge (the only way to qualify for this is to have a significant amount of time elapsed since the offense, end of probation, and after abiding by all laws and discipline...which shows the person a rehabilitated and credible member of society) for another 13 years (3 of probation and 10 after of all that stuff attached to your license online) seems more than unfair. It seems unjust.

I know the CA BRN is a self regulating body but it seems that there should be some checks and balances or some statute of limitations when it comes to denying/punishing applicants who committed these offenses so long ago. Offenses dismissed under pc 1203.4 or 1210.1 and Certificates of Rehabilitation should hold greater weight. The BRN says that they look at the time that has elapsed, evidence of rehab, dismissals, and Certs. of Rehab., but then they grant many of the very people that have these things and more a probationary license that makes it hard to work. I could go on but many of us have heard this before and it has been talked about here already.

A hearing would be several more months of waiting but it may be worth it. Keep us updated. As will I....still waiting for SOI's from AG.

britneypears · Nov 4, 2014

I just want to say thank you so much for sharing your information with us. I also have a DUI and am finishing up school. The lawyers that I have spoken with around here (Los Angeles) who deal with nursing licensing have been quoting me incredibly high prices. One even quoted me 9k!! And he pretty much said that the license would be probationary just less restricted...maybe. HAH!

I just have a couple questions for you. What was your BAC for your DUI? and how recent was it? also the stipulations for 1-19 , does that mean its pretty much unrestricted at work? Such as can you do all the job duties as an another RN would...

Thank you again for sharing your story

3rdeyeRN · Nov 4, 2014

UPDATE: I have some hopeful news! Everyone look up AB 2396 (Bonta). It was a bill just passed in September by Governor Brown. It will prohibit licensing entities of the DCA to deny licenses to applicants based solely upon dismissed (expunged) convictions. From the research I've found, it looks as though the licensing agencies won't be able to get around it. I have read the meeting minutes from the Board of Nursing, Pharmacy, and Accounting as well as letters from them to the Governor restating that they will no longer be able to deny licenses based on dismissed convictions. The only disheartening article I found was from a law office website stating that it may be an issue for nurses, however, there was no evidence to back that claim. I am doing what I can to get more information so that I can report back because this is huge for all of us. FYI my hearing is scheduled for mid August 2015 :-/ but if this bill will hold up I am going to withdraw so I can reapply. The bill takes effect in January.

I submitted an inquiry to lawyers with my case information and I was contacted the next morning! I am going to see them next Tuesday and will let you all know what I can find out.

Morningglory: Once they deny you, you always have to say you were denied :-(

BritneyPears: I would say don't take probation. Google california BRN Codes for the full rundown. The work restrictions are on where you can work and you also must be supervised by an RN. Your employer will have to submit regular reviews on you and keep in contact with the BRN. You are required to complete a rehab/treatment program of the BRNs choice, go to therapy sessions, get drug and alcohol tests, mental and physical evals (all paid by YOU), etc, etc. The DUI was 10 years ago and the BAC was 0.16 (I was also parked in front of my house. Looking back I wish I fought it, but at the time I felt guilty for drinking). It's been expunged.

Carl Winslow · Dec 1, 2014

Please keep us updated with this! This sounds like wonderful news and it's about damn time!

BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN · Dec 2, 2014

They'll let you take the exam, but not tell you the results? That just seems cruel!

Oooops · Dec 4, 2014

Hello, I was convicted of DUI and applied to the CA BRN Aug 2014. After review by the enforcement division I was cleared to take the Nclex and get licenced with no restrictions. I want to give some hope to those of you in the same position I was - freaked out and wondering what will happen. I spent many a late night studying every DUI related post on this site. I used that info to good effect. When I applied I threw everything at them I could think of with my application. I did get an alcohol and drug assessment at the cost of $200 by a state approved agency called OSH. I also had my doctor write a letter. I wrote a very strong letter of explanation that I would be willing to share for anyone interested. I outlined in a separate post exactly what I did here: https://allnurses.com/nursing-licensure-criminal/another-ca-brn-958335.html . I had no attorney and never consulted with one. I was not confident that what I was doing was going to work and I went forward believing that I would get the stipulations and was making back up plans to apply to another state. However my plan did work and again I think it was likely because of the assessment from OSH, my strong letter, my expungement, and the long length of time from my conviction. Good luck to everyone here and if I can be of help by answering any questions then let me know. :)

3rdeyeRN · Jan 28, 2015

I tried to private msg you but haven't had enough activity so I was blockedâ€¦here's the msg:

I'm really sorry. It's so depressing, I have no idea what to do. The lawyers that are working for me just made contact with the AG's office and are waiting for a response to see if they will negotiate. I had an addiction evaluation done, a physical exam (which is part of the required probation), and acquired additional letters from instructors, classmates, people I've worked with and the principal of the school I volunteer at. Initially I only sent in letters from instructors, details about my volunteer work, proof of expungement, proof of my academic accomplishments and completion certificates of the programs I did and it wasn't enough.

My lawyers said that hearings usually don't produce different outcomes. I can't even pursue a BSN degree if on probation and have no clue where I can get hired. I don't have very high expectations at this point, but will let you know if anything changes in the next week or two.

Jctt1996 · Jan 29, 2015

For the OP, I feel for you. I really do. I was denied my license in 2010 and went through three years of agony and obvious negligence committed by the CA BON. I had been charged for drug possession offense in my twenties. I was a first time non-violent drug offender and was eligible for a newer type of drug diversion program. It was a "Pre-plea" diversion that allows me to suspend any type of court proceeding and enter into a rigorous 18 month rehabilitation program. I don't enter a plea of no contest, or guilty as most of the programs for diversion say you do. Its essentially not-guilty. This happened before I wanted to be a nurse. The drug diversion program taught me well about life and doing stupid things and I payed a big price. Anyway, knowing I was getting a "second chance" as it was termed I busted my butt to do everything I could to show that I am worthy of an RN license and without any doubt competent and safe and display good moral character. From grades, to professors acknowledging my exceptional work, volunteering, working, competing as a semi-pro level triathlete... you name it, I did it. The board denied my license and I was devastated, and I still am to this day. 3 years it took them to do something after I appealed. They lost my file and were dysfunctional, disorganized, and whatever else. They gave me some settlement finally that blew my mind. Probation for 3 years and 19 stipulations that I had to follow. I had moved so far past that in my life with the programs and other self-rehabilitation efforts that I couldn't imagine going backwards. It didn't make sense really. I believe that a license on probation allows you just about no opportunity in terms of employment to become self-reliant. I could go on and on. My arrest was "deemed never to have happened" by the Superior Court of CA. I just now had the record sealed and I am hiring an attorney to reapply and I'm sure its going to cost big $$. It will require an administrative hearing in front of an administrative law judge and whatever goes on after that. I won't accept a license with disciplinary action. I'll have to move on despite it being so difficult to accept. Its a dead end to me with constant scrutiny. Some may disagree, but I paid heavy dues and everyone that knows me doesn't understand. About the best news I have read the last five years was a bill that went into effect on January 1st, 2015 signed by Jerry Brown for cases like myself (see link). The board has gotten so bad since governor Schwarzenegger fired many of the BON members in 2009-2010. Now they just deny everyone without due diligence with one little mark on your record. Attorneys I have talked to say they are interested to see how this law plays out. So am I!

[h=1]http://www.californialicenselawblog.com/2014/10/articles/professional-license-law/governor-brown-signs-ab-2396-limiting-the-use-of-expunged-convictions-to-deny-license-applications/[/h]

Okiefornian · Feb 1, 2015

I have two prior charges from 2003 for possession of a controlled substance. The arrests occurred within two months of each other and I was enrolled into a drug diversion program per the statutes of my PC 1000 terms. The charges were dismissed after I completed the terms of PC1000. According to the clause PC 1000.4:

1000.4. (a) Any record filed with the Department of Justice shall

indicate the disposition in those cases deferred pursuant to this

chapter. Upon successful completion of a deferred entry of judgment

program, the arrest upon which the judgment was deferred shall be

deemed to have never occurred. The defendant may indicate in response

to any question concerning his or her prior criminal record that he

or she was not arrested or granted deferred entry of judgment for the

offense, except as specified in subdivision (b). A record pertaining

to an arrest resulting in successful completion of a deferred entry

of judgment program shall not, without the defendant's consent, be

used in any way that could result in the denial of any employment,

benefit, license, or certificate.

What this statement is saying is that the California Board of Nursing cannot deny licensure to someone who has been arrested and complied with terms of the PC 1000 program. These arrests have more potency than typical dismissed arrests; however, this only applies to California state licensing agencies.

I would never omit a history of arrest on a nursing application. They can deny you licensure because of this. Most states now require fingerprinting and an FBI Department of Justice (DOJ) background search. This means that even if you were arrested and no charges were ever filed, this will still show up. In many states, it asks if you were ever arrested not just conviction. If this arrest is omitted, this can be a violation of the Nurse Practice Act and result in disciplinary action. Even if the arrest was for something as arbitrary as being 18 years old and being arrested for trespassing after using a community pool.

That being said, I believe it is in the best interest of all nursing applicants with ANY, and I mean ANY history of arrest to, at minimum, arrange for an appointment for a professional legal consultation. This should cost at most $300. Some attorneys even provide free consultations. If an arrest is omitted on any nursing application, this can be considered falsification of documents/records and is considered a violation of the Nurse Practice Act. This can result in denial of licensure or result in a discipline from the state BON in which a permanent, public reprimand will remain on the license. Be aware that in most states, these disciplines are indefinite and cannot be retracted once the orders have been signed by the nurse applicant. In my state of residence, the orders are posted and the charges are included in the order. Every prospective employer will look up your license on the state boards website and be able to see that there was a discipline, what the discipline was for, and your arrest history.

If this has happened to you, you WILL eventually find a job; it might take months to get, and it might not be the one you want, but you will find a job.

I am sharing this because I want to help any future nurses who might be unsure if they need to disclose an arrest history. If a nurse applicant has any possible questions or doubts, please, please contact an attorney who specializes in nursing licensure.

The requirements vary from state to state so again, if ever applying as a new nurse or attempting to endorse one's license to another state, seek PROFESSIONAL legal advice. Do not listen to other nurses because every case is handled differently.

Stressnewgrad · Apr 21, 2015

Hi Guys!! I may have some good news, I applied last May and was denied and all the same things as you all. Well the AG had just finished drawing up my plea aggreement (last week) with the condidtions 1-19 of probabtion, when she read about the new bill (AB 2396 (Bonta). It was a bill just passed in September by Governor Brown. It will prohibit licensing entities of the DCA to deny licenses to applicants based solely upon dismissed (expunged) convictions). Well she called me and told me about this bill, I had no idea!! She submitted my file back to the BRN referenceing this bill and BOOM! I got a call yesterday stating from the AG stating that the BRN wishes to withdrawn their denial completely. The AG said I should be recieving a letter within a week!!! I'm so Happy!!! If any of youare still waiting I suggest you contact the deputy attoney general that is handleing your file and ask them to resumit you file to the BRN with the conditions of this new bill AB2396.

if there is anything I can do, or any questions you migh have please just ask :)

morningglory123 · Apr 27, 2015

Any update?

Sacnewgrad · Apr 28, 2015

Hi Stressnewgrad, I am in a similar predicament.... I can not message you but was wondering were you denied based solely on your previous convictions?