Application denied by California BRN

poppycat, ADN, BSN · Oct 11, 2014

I don't have any advice for you but wanted to send you ((hugs)) & tell you how sorry I am you're going through this.

Carl Winslow · Oct 13, 2014

Don't worry. Every one that has been convicted of a crime is denied their license initially. You may have to wait a bit longer than your classmates, but as long as you give them all of the necessary paperwork, letters of recommendation from your nursing instructors etc etc, you should be ok. You will likely have to appeal their decision because they basically deny everyone at firts and that's what takes the longest. And as far as the new grad programs are considered, from all that I've read, they consider you a new graduate based on your experience. For example, the ICU program in San Diego states that if you have 6 months or less experience as an RN, you are eligible; they do not look at the time of graduation. This is the same for all residency/internships I have ever came across. California just sucks in general.

I'm in the same boat and I will probably just apply to another state in order to start my career sooner, then apply for an endorsement later down the road once my career is in order. You're not the first nor the last to be in this situation. You will get your license...eventually. You just have to wait because California is completely backwards and incompetent in every aspect. They will tell you that it is "impacted" and that is why you have to wait; but, the real reason is just that they are lazy and slow. I've heard stories of other students paperwork getting lost or thrown in the trash. California is just one gigantic DMV. Just be patient, you will have your license. Since you have already applied to Ca, there is nothing you can do but wait unfortunately.

3rdeyeRN · Oct 14, 2014

That actually isn't true. Two of my classmates had DUI's and got their licenses right away and did not get denied initially. I, on the other hand, got denied and am in the same situation. I filed an appeal and took the NCLEX in June. I still don't know my results. I just received a statement of issues last week and have to file a response in the next 10 days. I can't afford a lawyer and from what I heard, the mistake was not having one, or the advise of one, before I sent my application in. I feel doomed. Best case scenario would be a letter of public reprimand, but more likely is probation. I've heard that it's really hard to get a job on probation and people aren't able to complete the terms of their probation because of not working. I wish I had something better to say. Hopefully your situation will turn out differently.

Carl Winslow · Oct 14, 2014

You're in California? I suppose every case is different, but from what I've read and heard, is that the second you check that little box admitting you were arrested or convicted of a crime, all sirens and bells go off and they halt your application right there. But anyways, that's not the point.

I would agree with you in regards to probation. Being on probation, unless you are ALREADY employed, is pretty much career suicide. My friend went through it (he's a respiratory therapist) and they put him on probation for 3 years. It was awful he said, and it ended up costing around 15 THOUSAND dollars over the course of those 3 years. But, new grads will be unlikely to find a job on probation, many hiring managers will tell you right out the gate that they wont. Plus, it's just a nightmare altogether. I would fight as hard as you can and try to at least obtain a lawyer after you appeal. Worst case scenario, there are plenty of other states who are not as nuts as California.

I posted a separate post regarding the issue of the Ca BON. Have you noticed that nearly 100% of these worried and stressed out nursing students are all from California? I think it is more than just a coincidence. If you get offered probation I would not take it. I would apply to other states then try to get an endorsement to Ca later on. Good luck.

CaliCalinurse · Oct 15, 2014

I also know people with multiple charges including DUI, assault, possession of drugs and so on that received their ATT and approval of licensure. It seems like there is no predicting the BRN's decision. I have talked to as many as 10 lawyers and everyone seems to say something slightly different about the likelihood of my outcome. With prices ranging from 2,500- 12,000. I found a representative who helps with these cases and charges a total of 2,500 for an appeal. That is the least expensive that I have found for someone with a lot of experience. She seemed really sweet and caring and made me feel a lot better about all of this.

What state are you planning on applying to? I have been told that in my case since I have no convictions, both dismissals and a ton of letters of recommendation, character references, proof of rehabilitation including counseling/therapy, was never on probation and have been working in multiple hospitals for the past 4 years that I will likely end up with a public reprimand or a citation and fee. I'm really confused as to how either of these effect your nursing career. Of course the lawyers say a public reprimand is no big deal yada yada and it's easy to get hired with one. I obviously would rather have no probation and a reprimand... but would I rather have a normal license in another less strict state than a reprimand? I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

3rdeyeRN · Oct 16, 2014

Yes, I am in California. From what I heard, my classmates had legal advice before they submitted their app. They may have included more letters from people and a substance abuse evaluation (done usually by substance abuse counselors/therapists). The lawyers I spoke with told me that this costs around $400 with the company they work with, however, I found Sacramento County court approved therapists that charge only $75 to $100 by doing an online search. It's an actual document found on the court's website. Anyway, I am going at this alone without an attorney because I can't afford one. I spoke with the AG's office today and was told that the earliest date for a hearing is in July of 2015, but I had to schedule one in order for me to receive some type of settlement from them.

My advice to anyone reading this:

1. Get legal advice before submitting your application. They will write your letter and make sure your supporting evidence is sufficient.

2. Once you initially get denied your license you have to put it on your job applications and license applications to other states, so it may be best to just apply elsewhere and not take your chances with CA BRN.

3. The probation terms are out of control and can be very costly. If you are lucky enough to get offered a public letter of reprimand initially rather than probation, I would think that you could try to fight it. However, if you are offered probation initially and get that reduced to the letter of reprimand I would take it because it's probably the best case scenario.

You can find these terms online by searching for California nursing uniform standards related to substance abuse and disciplinary guidelines.

Carl Winslow · Oct 16, 2014

Thanks for the info. Yeah, from all the research I have done, it seems that anyone with priors would benefit from staying away from California altogether. I just see this as a silver lining and the final push I needed to get the hell out of this awful state.

3rdeyeRN · Oct 24, 2014

UPDATE: I actually received my Settlement Agreement on Monday and I have to tell you that I was not shocked by it. I DID receive Probation Terms 1-19. So for all of you that find yourself in this situation, please prepare yourself for the worst because it is a big possibility. I had to sit and really think about this. From what I've read here and there it seems like some people were in a hurry to get licensed and took the initial deal. I've also heard that having this type of probation is like having the plague and hiring managers steer clear of you. I responded to the AG today and let him know that after carefully considering the offer I could not agree to it at this time. While I understand the serious nature of my past actions, I know that I am definitely not the person I was 9 years ago. I asked for the opportunity to submit additional evidence. In lawyer lingo it's called a mitigation package and if I had a lawyer, this would be the next step in trying to get the offer reduced. I was told that I need to submit everything I can. Letters from everyone including family, friends, pastor, classmates, instructors, coworkers, etc. Anyone who knows you. I am also getting an alcohol and drug evaluation done, it costs $75 to $100 in my area. I'm in NorCal and found a list of court approved professionals on the Sacramento Superior Court website (if anyone needs this please message me). I was also told to include transcripts and basically information on anything you've been doing since to show you are rehabilitated. Completion of court approved programs, volunteering, schooling, etc. My evaluation appointment is not until November 1st, so it will be several weeks until my next update.

morningglory123 · Oct 26, 2014

What is an evaluation appointment and what happens then?

3rdeyeRN · Oct 28, 2014

So, the "evaluation" is something done voluntarily to show that you are not addicted to drugs and alcohol. I was actually told by the AG's office that submitting additional evidence is not necessary, however, attorneys I've spoken with have all told me that they send in a "mitigation package" along with their requests to negotiate…so not sure if that is a way for them to get money from you or if the AG decides on a case by case basis if you need to submit additional evidence regarding rehabilitation.

I asked if the board would consider a public reprimand and/or citation and fine and my response from them this morning was no, that they want some type of probation. I would at least ask them because the decision may be case by case and the worst they can do is say no. Basically, I either agree to some type of probation or a hearing next summer and see what a judge says.

I'm going to try to negotiate the terms of the probation and hopefully it will at least buy me some time so I can think clearly about this decision. Not only will the probation last for 3 years, this disciplinary action will stay attached to my license for 10 years from the date of the stipulated agreement (and that goes for anyone on probation, a reprimand is 3 years), meaning that by the time it comes off of the BRNs website the conviction will be 20 years old and everything I did to have it dismissed was basically for nothing because I will still have to disclose it to any future employer.

FYI: a lot of nursing schools for BSN or MSN will not accept you if your license is on probation or you didn't get your license within a certain timeframe from graduating the ADN program. CSU San Marcos and a few other California schools don't list restrictions on admission for that, but I haven't contacted them to officially inquire about it. There are some out of state online programs that admit on a case by case basis.

I wish I had better news...

3rdeyeRN · Oct 28, 2014

I have officially been denied the opportunity to negotiate the terms of the settlement agreement I was offered. I was informed by the AG's office that at the time of my initial request he was told that the settlement is non-negotiable. The way I feel now is that this is something I can't agree to. It's wrong because my current disposition does not warrant such harsh punishment. I've already been punished in many ways other than by the law because of this. The BRN should be honest with people from the beginning about their standards for applicants as well as the potential punishment they will issue to an applicant with a criminal history. I contacted the BRN before I began nursing school and was told I would have no problem getting licensed, but what they failed to tell me was that it would be on their terms. I'm now considering a hearing or withdrawing and applying to another state.