anyone else feel this way?

cmggriff · Feb 19, 2001

Yankee,

I am from the south and have worked in several southeren hospitals. It is rather typical for newcomers to be held suspect until they prove themselves in the south.The assumption seems to be that you don't fit in until you prove that you can. It sounds to me like that is the situation you are in. There is no easy solution. But I highly recommend against "Not caring". That is no solution and I doubt if you could not care any way. Good luck.

grammied50 · Feb 19, 2001

keep your spirits up! esp. in sicu/icu nurses can be terrors! try to find someone to mentor with and take all of the continuing ed that the place has to offer!keep documentation on difficult coworkers for your own sake. but,don't give up! we need more rns who are willing to teach new staff! you will be one of them before long. there is no easy answer but it would seem that you nurse manager should bring up the general topic in a staff meeting. you cannot change the drs. but you can change the way you respond to them!be well prepared and act like you are confident even if you don't feel that way on a particular day! no one knows everything and too often we expect ourselves to! do fun stuff outside of work with your kids! i am from va. and there is alot to do in the south! keep your chin up! ihave moved alot-the last to wa. st.! it is a hard adjustment! best of luck! it does get better!

lita1857 · Feb 19, 2001

Thanks guys for ALL the input!!!you all amazed me...if anyone has read some of my previous posts I'm the rude one...I probably came across as eating you alive...and I probably did here and in my professional life. This gives me a new prospective on the subject of new nurses and those new to an area, I hope I can be more of a mentor than than in the past. I also am going back to the bedside in a different area so it's my turn(haven't oriented to something new in 2yrs)you know what they say "pay back's are a bi***!!It'll be just fine-it's about the journey...talk with you all soon

yankee_in_SC · Feb 19, 2001

Originally posted by hollykate:
To Lita,
I totally understand your point of view- but to be fair-when comparing to teachers- teachers in many areas are given mentors whom they meet with, outside of work, once a week and discuss how things are going. My sister is a new teacher, and she feels totally unprepared for the crazy behavior of the children. I recently saw a documentary on a teachers first year and many of the teachers describe not knowing how to effectivey handle a classroom, despite their time student teaching.
We ave recently had a number of not new nurses come to our ICU- after a month there is one who still can not remember how to zero an a line- this is annoying, and I wonder how long she will last off orientation. But, in Yankee's post, her mgr stated there was not a problem with her work. I think it's personalities- Yankee seems to have a good sense of what she knows and what she doesn't- which is the key to being successful. If it doesn't work out, Yankee, youcan come and work where I work, the nurses are still sometimes jerks, but the MD's at least, are peaches.

Hi Hollykate,

You are right about teaching (and may I include orienting as well?)--no amount of training prepares you for the trenches. You have personality clashes, can't find the supplies, don't know who to trust, can't locate the paperwork...and that doesn't even begin to describe the challenges of the "job"! I feel sorry for new grads, having no experience base to fall back on...

I still have gads of checklists and modules left to complete, as there was no time during work to discuss them. Ah, the joys of short staffing...OH, there's TWO of you?? One preceptor and one orientee? Then you can have the absolute worst patients on the unit, because after all there's TWO of you... I'm heading back to work tomorrow, and am going to trudge on..but hollykate, if it isn't working, I'll be sure to be in touch! Thanks! J

There are positive people where I work, don't let me mislead you..but the few negative ones ruin it for all the staff.

yankee_in_SC · Feb 19, 2001

Originally posted by lita1857:
Thanks guys for ALL the input!!!you all amazed me...if anyone has read some of my previous posts I'm the rude one...I probably came across as eating you alive...and I probably did here and in my professional life. This gives me a new prospective on the subject of new nurses and those new to an area, I hope I can be more of a mentor than than in the past. I also am going back to the bedside in a different area so it's my turn(haven't oriented to something new in 2yrs)you know what they say "pay back's are a bi***!!It'll be just fine-it's about the journey...talk with you all soon

lita, like I said in a previous post, no amount of orienting can prepare you for the nuances for the job. And in critical care, the nuance can be a life-or-death issue. Sometimes the stress level of "what am I walking into tonight" can make all that learning go out the window. I am the most level headed relaxed person I know, but being mentally "slapped" by snide comments and looks does nothing but destroy what confidence and learning that has been built.

You can usually tell the ones that will make it--it becomes pretty obvious after awhile.

Hope your experience is pure positive!

Stargazer · Feb 19, 2001

Yankee, as has been discussed in the "New nurses in ICU" thread, the only way to make it is with wonderful and supportive preceptors and coworkers. I'm so sorry to hear that you had neither. After 6 months, you're really beyond the "assigned preceptor" stage--so I would suggest finding yourself a mentor. It might be the nurse educator or CNS for your area, or just 1 or 2 of the nicer, more patient nurses in your unit who don't mind being asked questions and like to teach.

I also admire your determination to learn by buying books and studying. Some local community colleges offer great 1 - 2 day workshops like X-ray or lab interpretation or advanced cardiac assessment. In my area, there are a lot of master's-prepared nurse entrepeneurs who give seminars on advanced 12-lead EKG interpretation and hemodynamic monitoring. Keep an eye out for these--many institutions will even give "scholarships" for you to attend these classes.

If you really can't find a core group of nurses who are a little more patient and pleasant to work with--get out, switch jobs, do what you have to do to make sure you are not permanently poisoned by this toxic atmosphere. It's not worth it. You are way too new to be this burned out. Good luck!

Mijourney · Feb 20, 2001

Hi yankee. Welcome to the South. Brutal, eh. The physicians and other practitioners in the South seem to enjoy putting on some type of macho masquerade especially when a migrant is in town. This is pretty much anywhere, but is more notable in the South where you still have alot of hero worship from nurses to physicians and the nurses as well as physicians and other practitioners tend to be frequently overly territorial.

I agree with you that you keep things superficial with your coworkers for now and practice some avoidance maneuvers. Do the best you can and try to stick it out. There may be some other alternatives you can apply for job wise. If there are certain things you don't know, you can discuss with your manager since she says you don't have any work problems as well as a supportive critical care educator. He/she can review with you care activities that you may not be familiar with.

I'm sorry you're being eaten alive. It tends to be a sport in nursing. Best wishes for your success.

lsmo · Feb 20, 2001

WHY IS IT THAT NO ONE SEES THAT YANKEE'S MANAGER HAS SOME ACCOUNTABILITY HERE? IT SEEMS TO ME IF YANKEE HAS A GOOD WORK RECORD THEN THE NURSE(S) GIVING HER A ROUGH TIME SHOULD GET TAKEN ASIDE AND REPRIMANDED. NO WORK PLACE SHOULD TOLERATE THAT IN STAFF. IF I WAS YANK, IN ADDITION TO ALL THE GREAT SUGGESTIONS THUSFAR, I WOULD ASK THE MANAGER WHAT HE/SHE PLANS ON DOING TO "RE-EDUCATE" AND REDIRECT THESE MISGUIDED EMPLOYEES? MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT IS BEING DONE BY YOUR MANAGEMENT TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET THE MENTORING YOU DESERVE? TOO OFTEN OUR WORKPLACES ARE SHORT STAFFED AND SUPPORT FOR STAFF IS LACKING. MAYBE THESE NURSES ARE "EATING THEIR YOUNG" IN RESPONSE TO DYSFUNCTIONAL WORK CONDITIONS. THINK ABOUT IT, AS EXPERIMENTS ON MICE HAVE SHOWN: PUT THEM TOO CLOSE TOGETHER IN A TINY PLACE, DENY FOOD AND WATER, OR OVERSTIMULATE THEM AND THEY TOO WILL START TO BEHAVE INAPPROPRIATELY IF NOT KILL EACH OTHER!

------------------

L.Smo RN

[This message has been edited by lsmo (edited February 20, 2001).]

fergus51 · Feb 20, 2001

It's stories like these that kept me away from ICU. They seem to have the worst reputaion for eating their young. It's sad because they are the area that has been the hardest hit by the shortage of nurses and some of them can be AWESOME mentors, but new nurses always seem to work with the unit hags.

I think the worst experience in nursing was the realisation as a student that a lot of nurses seem to enjoy tormenting eachother instead of suppoting eachother. The bitchy, unprofessional nurses were the reason I didn't accept a job in the hospital I had done all my practicums in, and I made sure personnel knew it. Maybe if they realise why they aren't keeping any new grads something will be done.

JennieBSN · Feb 20, 2001

Ismo--I agree with you about mgt. being held accountable, however, yankee stated that mgt. offered to intervene and she declined. When I had my horrible preceptor in NICU (rode in on a broom every day, had the rep for running off new orientees), I went to my NM, and he just sat there like a stump and basically said, 'what do you want ME to do about it?' If he had offered to intervene, though, I'm not sure I would've taken that offer either. Like yankee said, most of the time, mgt. 'intervention' is ineffective because it's usually sugar-coated or NOT DONE AT ALL. Your anger is correct...management SHOULD be better. Why is it that the only ones in management seem to be those who are only good at paying lip service and pushing papers??? I've even climbed as high up the chain of command as to have a one-on-one with the CEO of the hospital(in regards to a different matter---short staffing and high turn over)...which, of course, changed absolutely nothing. Sad.

[This message has been edited by kday (edited February 19, 2001).]

hollykate · Feb 20, 2001

To Lita,

I totally understand your point of view- but to be fair-when comparing to teachers- teachers in many areas are given mentors whom they meet with, outside of work, once a week and discuss how things are going. My sister is a new teacher, and she feels totally unprepared for the crazy behavior of the children. I recently saw a documentary on a teachers first year and many of the teachers describe not knowing how to effectivey handle a classroom, despite their time student teaching.

We ave recently had a number of not new nurses come to our ICU- after a month there is one who still can not remember how to zero an a line- this is annoying, and I wonder how long she will last off orientation. But, in Yankee's post, her mgr stated there was not a problem with her work. I think it's personalities- Yankee seems to have a good sense of what she knows and what she doesn't- which is the key to being successful. If it doesn't work out, Yankee, youcan come and work where I work, the nurses are still sometimes jerks, but the MD's at least, are peaches.

yankee_in_SC · Feb 20, 2001

Originally posted by lsmo:
WHY IS IT THAT NO ONE SEES THAT YANKEE'S MANAGER HAS SOME ACCOUNTABILITY HERE? IT SEEMS TO ME IF YANKEE HAS A GOOD WORK RECORD THEN THE NURSE(S) GIVING HER A ROUGH TIME SHOULD GET TAKEN ASIDE AND REPRIMENDED. NO WORK PLACE SHOULD TOLERATE THAT IN STAFF. IF I WAS YANK, IN ADDITION TO ALL THE GREAT SUGGESTIONS THUSFAR, I WOULD ASK THE MANAGER WHAT HE/SHE PLANS ON DOING TO "RE-EDUCATE" AND REDIRECT THESE MISGUIDED EMPLOYEES? MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT IS BEING DONE BY YOUR MANAGEMENT TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET THE MENTORING YOU DESERVE? TOO OFTEN OUR WORKPLACES ARE SHORT STAFFED AND SUPPORT FOR STAFF IS LACKING. MAYBE THESE NURSES ARE "EATING THEIR YOUNG" IN RESPONSE TO DYSFUNCTIONAL WORK CONDITIONS. THINK ABOUT IT, AS EXPERIMENTS ON MICE HAVE SHOWN: PUT THEM TOO CLOSE TOGETHER IN A TINY PLACE, DENY FOOD AND WATER, OR OVERSTIMULATE THEM AND THEY TOO WILL START TO BEHAVE INAPPROPRIATELY IF NOT KILL EACH OTHER!

Let me tell you my opinion on management...As Long As the Work is Done, They Don't Care. Period. They see what they want to see. They have to account to the higher ups for the work, they certainly don't care to deal with the "squabbling". Is this a negative attitude? Absolutely. Comes from experience of going "to the office" and fighting for what's right. It's good in theory, poor in implementation.

As far as my manager intervening, I am sure she would. She seems to be very interested in her staff (as a matter of fact, I almost had to get my dropped jaw rewired when she told me that NO meeting was more important than her staff--that was a first for me to hear from a manager). But more importantly, this nasty nurse is a BODY, a Body who works nights, and to be honest, it's worth keeping her just for that, from a management perspective. So that's where it is, I wish I could do more, but I am of the belief that she will get what's coming to her...as a matter of fact, she's had a few instances since me that she's given bad nursing care, and she knows it. It's just a matter of time.