Anybody ever have an MD actively campaign to have you fired?

Nurses General Nursing

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My title is pretty descriptive. There is one doctor who hates me. Over the past several months there have been some unpleasant exchanges. I try to avoid caring for his pts, but sometimes I can't. I've known for over a year that he went to the CNE, and CEO of the hospital to get me canned. Sometimes I worry alot about it, sometimes not so much. I can't be real descriptive about the exchanges because I like the anonymity of this site. The MD feels I challenge his orders when I only try to clarify.

How do you handle it? Should I look for another job? I've got 10 years invested in the hospital where I work. No union here.:cry:

Mags Mom, I would agree that we all need to be civil and respectful. However, in this day and age, Drs and nurses are equals. If he or she is going to have a problem with me for requesting orders, and that they see their patients, so be it. I don't give a rat's behind. My opinion also carries some weight, and Drs can be reported. Drs have responsibilities to live up to, and they know it.

Not sure I agree w/being equals- do we need to treat each other with respect, absolutely..... but I've never had an MD ask me for orders (suggestions, yes- actual orders, no). :)

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Specializes in geriatrics.

We're not equals? Why? Just because the Dr writes an order does not mean he is my superior. Sorry, but no one will ever convince me of that. That kind of thinking gives them too much power. It is a collaborative effort.

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We're not equals? Why? Just because the Dr writes an order does not mean he is my superior. Sorry, but no one will ever convince me of that. That kind of thinking gives them too much power. It is a collaborative effort.

Then not much point in exchanging ideas, is there ? :D

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I can see what you are saying, but I was directing my comment to the OP who was talking about a doctor who seemed to be actively against her. In this situation and in MY experience where I work - if there is a complaint 99% of the time the opinion of the doctor is taken over the nurse on how things happened. I realize in a perfect world everyone would be considered equals but that is just not how it is in reality where I work. Lucky for you that where you work everyone's opinion matters.

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I can see what you are saying, but I was directing my comment to the OP who was talking about a doctor who seemed to be actively against her. In this situation and in MY experience where I work - if there is a complaint 99% of the time the opinion of the doctor is taken over the nurse on how things happened. I realize in a perfect world everyone would be considered equals but that is just not how it is in reality where I work. Lucky for you that where you work everyone's opinion matters.

LOL.... I was responding to joanna73.....or is that irrelevant :D..... I'm so confused :)

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LOL.... I was responding to joanna73.....or is that irrelevant :D..... I'm so confused :)

as was I, sorry I have been up all night which is not my normal schedule!:yawn:

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Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
We're not equals? Why? Just because the Dr writes an order does not mean he is my superior.
Doctors are not our superiors. They should not be viewed as godlike authority figures, either.

However, hospitals, nursing homes, and other healthcare settings usually defer to doctors because they generate money by referring patients to the facilities. More patients equals more money for the facility. Money talks; everything else walks.

On the other hand, nurses are viewed as just another expense that cuts into the hospital's profits, similar to the courtesy water pitchers and rolls of toilet paper. We are considered the most expensive form of labor in healthcare facilities, and as a result, administration tends to view us with disdain. You'd best believe that the hospital administrator will hesitate and do everything to prevent from revoking a bad doctor's admitting privileges, but will terminate a bad nurse's employment without thinking twice. Doctors and nurses are not exactly equals within the hierarchy of healthcare facilities because doctors are favored as the ultimate revenue-generators through the patients they admit.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
If you've been there over 10 years and this problem with the doctor just started shouldn't your good reputation protect you. I'm guessing this is the type of doctor where nurses are to be seen, not heard. Once I had a doctor complain about me for advocating for my patients, but nothing ever came of it. Seems ridiculous, if you ask me.

In fact, we are there to advocate for the patients. You've done nothing wrong. I wouldn't quit my job over a doctor! They usually come and go anyway. By us doctors are either independent or if they work for the hospitals they change hospital systems looking for better pay and benefits like most of us. Why walk away from over 10 years pay & benefits. Why give him that much power.

It is very rare for a dr to take offense, especially personally because you question an order. In my experience, they usually are happy to explain why if it is reasonable. Of course there are always one or two doctors that don't want nurses to question them or God forbid make a suggestion or recommendation and will then order the opposite, but you know who they are and have to approach them differently or work around them if need be. Call their consult for the order you need for instance and bypass them.

Probably this doctor is known as a hothead, complainer to management and complains about different nurses regularly so they take his comments with a grain of salt.

Many nurses have problems with certain doctors they don't like and don't want to take care of their patients just to avoid them. Usually its over a personal matter with a family member. I'm glad I don't work with the doctor that took care of my loved one, he was so unbelievable refusing her the care she needed. He even yelled at her daughter for taking her to the hospital and she had only been there twice since she was diagnosed with cancer 3 years before. Unbelievable! He didn't want to treat her, he wanted her to either go home and die with hospice or go to the nursing home he was the director of. In fact, he pushed her into the nursing home after only being in the hospital for a short time when I felt she needed more care. She needed blood, he refused to give it, even though her Hgb 8 and she had cellulitis and he stopped her antibiotics as soon as she was at the nursing home, even though her leg was still fiery red, swollen, hot and painful. I told them to fight with the medicare appeal but they wouldn't. He even said he wanted her in the nursing home because he just KNEW if she went home she'd be back in the hospital.

Oh yeah, of course because she wasn't getting the medical treatment she needed. In the end she died within 2 weeks of this altercation. Even though I got her pulled out of the NH, back home with home care. He finally relented after several days and put her back on antibiotics but the damage had been done. The home care nurses couldn't believe that he was pressuring them not to go to the hospital and he got angry when they advocated for epogen to build up her blood as he had refused to give her a transfusion. She was very anemic, weak and short of breath and blood would have helped her, it was a comfort issue. Of course he refused the epogen! She did end up back in the hospital and died shortly thereafter, but his neglect and mistreatment caused her to die quicker and more painfully than if he'd done his job.

I'm so glad he works at another hospital system because there is absolutely no way I could work for him. I would refuse to speak to him. He was like a kevorkian doctor and refusing to treat his patient. I have never seen a doctor do this before, normally the doctors treat their patients and follow their wishes, unless they ask for hospice which is still their choice. He was basically trying to force her to be hospice against her wishes. It makes me sick, but his blood is on her hands and that because of him she had to die scared and in pain.

He pushed her into hospice even though she begged him to stay in the hospital. She was taken by an ambulance to a fancy hospice and they overdosed her on many meds and she died within hours. She was so scared and wanted to stay in the hospital but he refused her dying wish. I told them to fight with the medicare appeal, but they were afraid, and I wasn't legal POA to stop this or believe me I would have!

I honestly believe he felt it was time for her to die and he didn't want to deal with us demanding the medicare care she deserved and needed. It was his way of getting rid of us, getting the last word and making sure she died on his timetable, not God's. Once your in hospice, you can't go back to the hospital. You've basically given all your rights away! Hospice didn't even want to give her a breathing treatment to help her breathe and she was panicking out of fear and hadn't had a treatment in many hours. Finally they gave her a treatment, but pumped her full of so much meds that she died in hours in a coma, unable to speak or look at us. It was torture to watch her die, know she was scared and not be able to comfort her. I've never felt more helpless in my life!

I've taken care of hospice patients in my hospital and that is not the way we do things. We give them a slow steady amount of morphine for comfort and eventually nature takes its course, but we don't overdose them. I've never seen anything like this!

I know many nurses advocate for what good working conditions hospice is, but then you are seeing people be euthanized. That is a slippery slope from comfort and letting nature takes its course to overdosing them to die quickly. I don't want any part of that. I don't want their blood on my hands. God is the one who decides who lives and dies!

I'm sorry for your loss. That said, you have said untruthful things about hospice. You can indeed go back to the hospital if you are on hospice. Hospice care is not about drugging people so they die faster. Unless your SO ended up in a hell-hole of a hospice, what you described is not at all typical of hospice care.

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Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

Yes, actually I have! I had huge problems on how she was handling a case, and I went to the nursing supervisor and the head of OB (it wasn't being spiteful, I HAD to do this in order to advocate for my patient on a particular shift when the physician refused to come to the hospital to see the pt). She was defensive and ****** off, so she called for my resignation. Luckily, I had the backing of my nurse manager, the head of risk management, and half the OB doctors, who don't allow this particular doc to care for their patients when she's on call and one of their patients come to the hospital.

So, after some meetings between me, the doc, my supervisor and the head of risk management (meetings that *I* requested because the doctor was too immature to face the problem head on and ask to meet to discuss the issue), she backed off. I don't feel like I got the redress I think I deserved, but I was okay with accepting that that was as close she was going to come to admitting she was wrong, and I knew everyone was in my corner and knew the reality of the situation and that I didn't do anything wrong.

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Specializes in geriatrics.

No we can still exchange ideas. But I do stand firm that I am an equal with my Drs. We have a different knowledge base, Drs and nurses. I do not see any of them as God like, and I don't work in fear of them. Am I respectful? Sure. But the Dr is no better than I am, because he writes an order. In fact, sometimes his orders are incorrect, and that is pointed out.

Now, I should also mention that I am a Canadian educated nurse. Our healthcare system when compared to the US is vastly different. Yours is more focused on profit and the bottom line. Ours is not. I work for my patients and their families, not the Dr. Our nursing education is also different in some respects. We are taught that nurses are equal, not inferior. So, that is why I have the beliefs that I do. And, we do not have to agree to exchange ideas.

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Not sure I agree w/being equals- do we need to treat each other with respect, absolutely..... but I've never had an MD ask me for orders (suggestions, yes- actual orders, no). :)

*Cough*- this might be in the problem. Manner of approach when clarifying items with doctors* cough.

No one remembers anything as much as the way you make them feel- if you belittle someone in correction, they will remember and hate you for it.*cough.

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Specializes in LTC Rehab Med/Surg.

Thanks everyone. I've read all the posts. I'm feeling a little less hopeless this morning. It's scary working around someone, who dislikes me me so intensely. This MD would gladly rob me of my job, income, stability. It will calm down over the next few weeks, but I dread the possibility of caring for his pts.

Allnurses nurses are the best.

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