Another reason unions suck!

[Ruger8mm]

Trying to get a vacation as a new RN under a union regime is challenging at best. It's all seniority based. So the senior RNs can basically come and go as they choose. But that means the rest of us cannot be off (even though we don't cover each other or know each other's job). Also the silly union made a rule that managers cannot approve vacations to far out. So if someone knows they want a certain week 2 years from now, they cannot secure it and start booking flights or whatever. It's irritating at best.

[dede1956]

Where I work now it is a 1 year limit for scheduling vacations. Having said that, everyone knows that if you are planing a special vacation (cruise or out of the country flight) more than 1 year out we will make sure not to take that week(s) vacation. However, where I work it is seniority first until Jan 31 then it is first come first serve. The manager still has to approve the vacation time!

[twozer0, NP]

Never heard of a union contract that included mandatory overtime or allowed the employer to mandate extra weekends.

The nurse on FMLA can not be fired for a serious medical issue. This is Federal law. STD and sick days are paying the bills until she recovers or can receive LTD as it should be and you would do the same dam thing if you were sick.

Please reread the laws on FMLA, you get 12 weeks total, we're well past that. You dont know the situation or the individual so you have no room to talk about what is right in this situation. No I wouldnt do what is being done to us to my department, I'm not an *******. And shes not sick btw. Mandatory overtime is included in our contract, it might not be for yours. Who else is going to work her weekends, I have a dept of 10 people? You know all the answers anyway, I'm not even sure why im trying to explain this.

[8-ball, BSN]

Here is a solution, just become a travel nurse. Pay is good, not getting wrapped up in hospital politics, and make your own schedule, take vacation when you want and work when you want(determined in your contract) or work a contract 13 weeks and take a few months off before your next one. I love it.

[dede1956]

I'm curious ...why you have an open shop and not a closed shop? Where I work we voted in a union 5 1/2 yrs ago and will finally be going to the negotiating table soon (we hope). It has been tied up in local labor board, regional labor board, and the court system in DC...we just got notified just before Christmas that the court sided with the nurses and the hospital has to negotiate with us. When we were trying to get a union in we decided that we would have a closed shop. We talked about an open one but the union reps explained an open shop means you don't have to join, pay dues, BUT you GET EVERYTHING that the union members get. We all decided that wasn't happening, everyone pays dues and everyone get represented! No unions aren't perfect but they are only as strong as your membership/leadership is. If your leadership is working hard for you then you need to hold your elections and vote them out and put new nurses in. I look at it this way, the money that I will have to pay to get representation and people on my side is soo much more than I have right now without representation.

[ronsrn]

i doubt you will be there by then and it is a lot of time ahead

[Jobi Wan]

Do you honestly think that it would be better if there was no union?!?

I have worked non-union, right to work, at one if not the largest employee in Baltimore (think under a dome/Best of the best).

They were relentless with the nursing staff. In one breath, they would state how there has to be a work life balance, where a employee (hired the same week as me for the same position and experience) was happily granted every Sunday off, as he had season Ravens tickets.

When I asked for 2 weeks for my wedding, Friday to Friday, which was 9 months into the future, I was denied under the grounds it has to be from a Sunday to Sunday only, no exceptions. I could have found coverage for these *****, but I cold not see hoping that at the last moment someone would give up a Friday ****. It was a complete gamble if I could get married as planned.

On the other hand, working in CA with unions, i was not happy that they take dues like everyone. But the entire union facility culture, from the almost double regular hourly pay, strict overtime rules of after 8 hrs (overtime kicks in after that), to the general treatment by management (first time in m life i was considered an professional by my employee) made for quite a culture shock when I moved back to the East RN slave coast.

I suspect that these non-union posts are posted by the same people who manage other nurses, and have their own company approved perks. Divide us up and pick us off one by one.

Why on earth would management freak if employees just mutter the word union? they very well know that union representation would undermine the continuing pattern of low pay, less valuable benefits, more workload, as well as limit nursing input of scheduling among other things.

Sounds like corporate talking in the previous post to me.....

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Its not the quality of my representation, its the quantity. As stated, it does not matter if all of nursing shows up we're still outnumbered. We could vote on anything and still get put under the rug. Now I will say that most things that revolve around nursing are controlled mainly by nursing, the others follow suit but as soon as you waive a dollar on a string like the guy in the state farm commercials those lower in the wage department bite and ruin it not only for themselves but for everyone else as well. This tactic is used frequently. I myself would have rather had the raise than get the one time bonus as it would have paid for itself multiple times. I'm not trashing unions at all, I dont have a problem with them. Im stating that our representation when it comes down to financial matters holds no weight when compared to the rest of the union. Its hard to get someone on your side to see the bigger picture when they are already thinking of how to spend the bonus.

As far as the disciplinary process goes. We have had a staff member on leave for over 6 months, FMLA is used up, and I'm still required to continue picking up her weekends. Because of our union she cannot be fired, even though she is milking it for every last drop. Its disrespectful to your peers and the organizations and ultimately the patients because since we cant hire her replacement, were stuck working short. There has been almost no communication between this staff member and management as to what the plan is but I have heard through the grapevine from a reliable source that the sick time is just being used up and then she will call it quits. compound that with the fmla time and you have yourself a very long time to be down a member who doesnt care. Again, unions harbor this type of thing and its really my only gripe about them. I would like a more streamlined process for getting rid of staff like this. Lets face it, if you're a good employee there should be no reason that you should be getting fired anyway.

There is no perfect world, and no perfect disciplinary process.

The staff member on leave for six months may have very legitimate reasons for being on leave. It's not your business, and hopefully you don't know the details. Management may be working with her, and that's not your business either. As far as what you know "through the grapevine" -- that's just gossip.

[twozer0, NP]

There is no perfect world, and no perfect disciplinary process.

The staff member on leave for six months may have very legitimate reasons for being on leave. It's not your business, and hopefully you don't know the details. Management may be working with her, and that's not your business either. As far as what you know "through the grapevine" -- that's just gossip.

I wish it were but I have direct knowledge of things that were said (from the person to a person outside of work) and acknowledged that she wasnt coming back. We all know shes not but we cannot prove until she turns her paperwork in. Its coming, but the past 6 months have been hell!

[macawake, MSN]

I'm sure it's not like upper management has any bias against unions or any agenda or anything.

Now, now Ruby Vee... There you go with the critical thinking... I'm not sure that it's encouraged.

Don't you know that upper management and corporations are all generous and kind-hearted philanthropists who would never sacrifice their employees' wellbeing and in the specific case of hospital upper management, patients' safety to protect their sizable annual bonus. Of course they'd happily give up a part or all of their bonus to ensure optimal working conditions for their nursing staff and safe ratios for patients.

I'm certain that they are also completely fair and objective in how they portray unions. Since they are so highly motivated to improve the working conditions of their staff they don't feel at all squeezed by the pressure that unions apply, they have no earthly reason to react negatively or launch a smear campaign.

(my second and third paragraph in this post are very much -------------- > )

Of course you are correct, Ruby Vee.

I'm always surpised when these threads pop up, that there are people who genuinely seem to believe that a single individual can negotiate with a corporation and achieve the same result or better than what can be achieved when thousands of employees join force. I don't think there is much rational support for that stance.

History and the current situation in many of the countries in the world also seem to support that without unions or an equivalent counterweight to corporations, workers will have fewer benefits and worse working conditions then when they are represented by an entity on a more equal power footing with the employer/corporation.

[Jelliet]

You sound beyond lucky to me. I live and work in a "right to work" state.

We aren't even allowed to plan vacations more than 3-4 weeks in advance. The staffing office prepares the schedule each month for the following month. You put in your dates for that montH ONLY.

I had had asked for two days off so that I could attend a professional conference 3 months in advance. By the time those two days off were approved (as unpaid time off, btw) a mere 2.5 weeks prior to the actual event, the late registration fees for the conference and last-minute conference hotel rates cost me an extra $450 more than it would have had I been able to commit that money even a month before.

A coworker's child was going through a rough time and asked if she could come visit for the holidays. She put in for the time a full 4 months prior to the dates (keep in mind that at our facility, NO ONE had put in for vacation time for those dates yet. She had bought the tickets and made arrangements. Then, 3 weeks before leaving, she was denied the time. She left the facility over this, and I don't blame her. Meanwhile, they were overbooking the rest of us and then cancelling us left and right for the same period.

So so you whine and complain that you're not being allowed to put in for vacation time 18 months in advance?

Ive worked in several different fields, and also worked for myself and that has never been a benefit I've ever seen. And working in a "right to work" state, I'd be thrilled to have the union negotiated vacation selection process that you feel so saddled with.

Sheesh.

[vshaw1]

In an industry with such an awful draconian administrative environment that seeks to discipline nurses for any little deviation from the standard of practice nurses need unions. Nurses are educated, high functioning and intelligent and yet they are treated like idiots by a healthcare administrative caste that seeks to eventually replace all nursing professionals with technology. Yes nurses need to be represented by unions if they want to survive and practice nursing well into the 21st century.

[SquishyRN, BSN, RN]

Oh,so it's ok to think only of yourself , but it's not ok for someone who has EARNED their seniority to think of themselves?

Umm.ok.

And BTW, I am not in a union job, and guess what. Seniority still gets prime pick of vacation days. So here you'd still be SOL. And you'd lose your job if you "went anyway".

hmph.

Non-Union facility: going anyway=fired/disciplinary action

Union faculty: going anyway=OP then becomes the selfish, lazy, incompetent worker he hates so much that doesn't get disciplined because of union protection