ANA discriminates against LPN/LVN

nurs4kids · May 18, 2001

I think perhaps this BSN superiority thing is more a facility thing than a BSN vs ASN vs LPN thing. My facility treat all RN's the same, there is like a 25 cent differential in pay from ASN to BSN. Beyond that the only other barrier is climbing the ladder to upper management, which usually requires a MSN. I'm an ASN and work with several BSN's. They lack this attitude I continue to hear about here..or perhaps I do not see it because I'm so confident in my ASN ability. My MSN manager actually prefers ADN nurses over BSN, stating they're better suited for patient care and the BSN more suited for the business side of nursing. Personally, with the shortage, I could care less what letters fall behind someone's name. If you can share the load with me, I welcome the opportunity to work with you. And yes, just as I feel ASN deserves perks over LPN, I also feel BSN nurses deserve perks over ASN. There has to be some reward for surviving more of the torture of nursing school. :)

nurs4kids · May 18, 2001

I think perhaps this BSN superiority thing is more a facility thing than a BSN vs ASN vs LPN thing. My facility treat all RN's the same, there is like a 25 cent differential in pay from ASN to BSN. Beyond that the only other barrier is climbing the ladder to upper management, which usually requires a MSN. I'm an ASN and work with several BSN's. They lack this attitude I continue to hear about here..or perhaps I do not see it because I'm so confident in my ASN ability. My MSN manager actually prefers ADN nurses over BSN, stating they're better suited for patient care and the BSN more suited for the business side of nursing. Personally, with the shortage, I could care less what letters fall behind someone's name. If you can share the load with me, I welcome the opportunity to work with you. And yes, just as I feel ASN deserves perks over LPN, I also feel BSN nurses deserve perks over ASN. There has to be some reward for surviving more of the torture of nursing school. :)

christinajeanes · Jul 2, 2010

Someone has some serious anger management issues (talking to you monkey lady). LPN's --love ya--you all do a wonderful job!!!

NewbieLVN · Aug 6, 2010

Here is an advocate of LPNs being admitted to the ANA, even if it is in a "limited capacity"! This post was made by tim,acnp. Lpn/vn, read it carefully, and see if you wish to be included in an organization with those who think like this!
ACNP
Veteran
Member # 10664
posted May 06, 2001 09:44 PM
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Okay, look. I have not the time, the will, nor the desire to argue
Yet, I find hilarious the number of LPNs who THINK they have what it takes to be an RN. Everyone wants to be considered a professional, BUT VERY FEW are willing to put forth the effort to reach that level. There are DISTINCT DIFFEERNCES in the education of an LPN vs. an ADN. And the BSN? The differences in education are incomparable. Okay, okay.....so you are better at making beds, inserting foleys, or other "technical" duties. So is a highly trained monkey. But can you think critically? Let me answer that for you....NO. 90% of LPNs don't know the meaning of critical thinking, much less have the ability to apply it. I think that it is safe to say that 99.9% of LPNs CANNOT take a critical situation and apply knowledge learned from physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology etc. and apply it to that situation. It's possible to memorize a ton of information, but NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT. That is precisely the reason why your scope of practice is limited, as well as why advanced practice nursing requires the BSN as a prerequisite.
Yet, as always, nursing continues to seek the least common denominator - that which is easiest. What is the easiest and fastest way I can obtain my AND? That is no different than me stating, "How many classes can I skip in medical school? After all, I have eight years of full-time college education (and every prerequisite for medical school). I hold a BSN (4.0 G.P.A.) as well as a Masc. (3.95 G.P.A), in conjunction to years of VALUBLE experience. Don't forget!!! I already have prescriptive privileges, and I've tutored many of your medical students over the past two years in physical assessment skills! That should count for something!!!!! Pu-leeeaassseeee. Do you think they give a damn? Of course not. It is called S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D-S. Get it? One more time...
S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D-S. By all means...pursue an AND (or whatever) in the fast track, but please...PLEASE - don't whine and moan because you aren't deemed a professional.
Furthermore, the longstanding conviction that the BSN should be the entry level into nursing will never be adhered to. Thus, I am an advocate of having LPNs join the ANA in a limited capacity. There clearly needs to be unity within this field. But make no mistake. While unity is imperative for nursing to progress, there is a reason for the hierarchy. All nurses ARE NOT the same.
As always, this is not meant to be construed as insensitive or rude. However, the issue has apparently become cloudy, and the need for clarification is quite evident. I am done with this issue. Take care.
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Posts: 63 | From: | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
:mad

Furthermore, the longstanding conviction that the BSN should be the entry level into nursing will never be adhered to. Thus, I am an advocate of having LPNs join the ANA in a limited capacity. There clearly needs to be unity within this field. But make no mistake. While unity is imperative for nursing to progress, there is a reason for the hierarchy. All nurses ARE NOT the same.

In the world of Hogwarts I believe you would have been placed in Slytherin house... your definatly an alitist. It sounds to me that you first look at a nurses credentials before you weigh the quality of the individual nurses abilities.

As for myself, as my username would imply, Im relitivly new to the world of nursing.. though my heart has been in it for a bit longer. I first made the decision to become an RN by the help of a family friend who at the time was and still currently is a working anesthesiologist. Before she became a doctor, she worked as an RN. Her life story has been a tragic one, I will not give much more information but simply to say, she came to this country as a refugee from south vietnam. As a teenager she would do many low wage paying jobs; until the day came when she new she wanted to become a nurse. To make a story short, she obtained her RN and didn't stop with her BSN. She soared in her field and her place of employment payed for her to give seminars on nursing matters in the hospital setting. She later made it her goal to become a doctor, and also achieved this.

I take great honor in the fact that after careful consideration she recomended me to the nursing field. At the time I already had my AA degree and was still undecided on what exactly I wanted to become. She told me in so many words "You know Alejandro, the way I see you interact with my children, and the way you are so caring and considerate, you should become a nures!" She then went on to explain to me that "the nursing profession needs good young compassoinate men like yourself."

In the endevor to become a nurse, I made the dicision to start my experience from the bottom rung in the ladder. I first obtained and worked as a Certified Nursing Assistant. I must addmit I learned a lot about working with residents, LVN's, RN's, and the doctors. I can surely say that for every compatent profesional there is there is one who is not quite there.

I must admit that even though your argument seems to miss the main point, after reading it I must be the first in the forum to congradulate you on your high schoolastic marks. Im sure their must be no one prouder of you than yourself. :yeah: My hats off to you truly :jester:

But It would be responsible of me to redirect the focus of these posts back to the subject..

You see based on the many responses from ANA members like yourself; I find no other alternative but for us LVN/LPN's to form our own association/union. At least until the time comes when you and your ilk can see that having us as part of your association is possitive and not a negative.

I truly have more self respect not only for myself, but for all other LVN/LPN's than to accept your offer to join your ANA in how did you put it "I am an advocate of having LPNs join the ANA in a limited capacity."

Clearly there needs to be a union/association who's governing body will be a protective sheild spanning across to protect the broud range of LVN/LPN's working in California. It wouldn't be fair to pick and choose "a limited capacity" of LVN/LPN's whom to offer membership.

This is why Im now convinced that we LVN/LPN's need our own association. I want the world to see how truly VALUBLE we are.......

missyd1991 · Aug 8, 2010

I feel so sad reading some of these posts, it shouldn't be a contest of who has more education. It should be about the people we take care, the more we are united to better for our patients and better for our field. I'm a LPN and I'm very proud of that. I think if you are happy with were you are then that is all that matters. I know everyone is entilted to their own opinoin but being out and out rude is another. We all have to support one another or we will all fail. I hope that we all can come to an understanding and make our field stronger.

Sparrowhawk · Aug 8, 2010

I have criticial thinking..thank you very much.

irish6363 · Aug 10, 2010

to "RNCOUNTRY" no one could have said it better !!! it is too bad that they are promoting this elite way of thinking ...

ohmeowzer RN, RN · Aug 10, 2010

i'm a BSN and a RN is a RN we both take the same boards .. yes a LPN is a nurse and should be allowed in ANA .. i am not a member of the ANA because i think it's a waste of money .. i have been a nurse for 25 years and did belong about 8 to 10 years ago and then thought my girls needed to go to Emma Willard School so i decided to put the money toward that... All this is nonsense about having to be a BSN and that ADN's are not as good as BSN's is just not true.. all RN's take the same boards we are both the same .. LPN's are nurses and need to be let in the ANA if they want to join... i say buy a pizza instead.. but who am I right?

ohmeowzer RN, RN · Aug 10, 2010

soo let's sum this up... buy a pizza forget the ANA... Pizza tastes better and dosen't leave a slimy after taste as does the ANA.. and LPN's RN's ADN's and BSN's can all enjoy pizza... gotta run pizza is here !!

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Aug 16, 2010

This thread is almost 10 years old. But I can't bite my tongue on this one. A nurse is a nurse. Whether a LVN/LPN/ADN/BSN/MSN. You don't need a BSN or MSN to take your NCLEX-RN. You take the same boards. The difference is the level of education. A BSN/MSN are geared towards management positions. From my experience, those in management seem to have their noses in the air & think they know it all when they haven't worked on the floor for many years. Their attitudes towards floor nurses, LVN/LPN/RN & CNAs is far from professional. They have it in their mind that they are far superior than anybody else. That really floors me. Nobody is better than the other and all should be treated with respect.

Just because one holds a higher degree doesn't make them a professional in my eyes. No matter what position we may hold or what level of education we have we are bound to professionalism. We as health care workers must act "professional" on the floor. We must conduct ourselves in a professional manner including but not limited to: greeting, explaining procedures, asking permission, advocacy, assisting in the care, compassion etc. We are expected to act as a professional but not recognized as one? According to the standards and expectations as a professional we all fall under that category. But degree wise, some don't fall under that category, supposedly those are para-professionals. I hold a BA so I'm considered a professional. But I'm also a LVN, so I guess I'm only a para-professional. Now some of those ADN/BSN/MSN don't act professional but yet they are considered professionals. The LVNs that I work with happen to be the most professional people that I work with. They came from a time when discipline was part of the program. They also trained most of our BSNs on the floor but were booted out of the floor and are now treated as CNAs and can't have their own patient load. I also find RNs still go to them for help.

My point being is that if the ANA doesn't distinguish LVN/LPNs as nurses and won't accept them into their organization then so be it. A professional organization will accept all nurses and not hand pick. Start an organization that includes all nurses and set the example.

elkpark · Aug 16, 2010

The ANA was founded and named when there was no such thing as an LPN, and when "nurse" meant a registered nurse. They haven't chosen to change their name, and they're not obligated to do so.

Also, it would be hard for a professional advocacy organization to include both RNs and LPNs when the two groups' interests sometimes conflict -- when that happens, which group would the organization support, and which group would they leave in the lurch??

There are organizations out there that advocate for and represent the interests of LPNs, and I don't really see what the big deal is. If I were an LPN, I would much prefer to belong to an organization exclusively devoted to LPNs, rather than hoping that a combined RN-LPN organization would enthusiastically work on my behalf (because I doubt that's how it would work out -- in a combined group, LPNs would most likely end up being "second-class citizens").

SWard95 · Mar 1, 2011

The ANA will never welcome LPNs because they view LPNs as SCAB LABOR. They have since Practical Nurses began being Licensed in WWII and taking jobs in hospitals.

Now the ANA has a scam called "Magnet Certification" - with a deliberated goal of banning all LPNs from ever entering a hospital again. Likewise, the ANA is now on a mission of banning LPNs from Nursing Homes and Home Health.

With all of this Hate and Bile the ANA has toward LPNs, do you really think they will ask LPNs to join them? Think again please.