ANA discriminates against LPN/LVN

nurs4kids · May 16, 2001

Now they want us to join the UAN / ANA or just join the ANA. Could it just be declining revenue which fostered this focus? It is pretty sad to have a national organization which could be possibly motivated on revenue as deciding its focus. The small percentage of membership has not determined their focus over the years. It seems that the direct competition of other groups has caused to to wake up though.[/QB]

I suspect it's more a matter of opportunity than competition. As we saw with the MNM, now is the time to make money "speaking" for nurses, be it legit or not. I don't believe they needed a wake up call, they just needed a bunch of miserable nurses. They got it, but I seriously doubt they'll do much good. The shortage itself will be our best ally.

nurs4kids · May 16, 2001

Now they want us to join the UAN / ANA or just join the ANA. Could it just be declining revenue which fostered this focus? It is pretty sad to have a national organization which could be possibly motivated on revenue as deciding its focus. The small percentage of membership has not determined their focus over the years. It seems that the direct competition of other groups has caused to to wake up though.[/QB]

I suspect it's more a matter of opportunity than competition. As we saw with the MNM, now is the time to make money "speaking" for nurses, be it legit or not. I don't believe they needed a wake up call, they just needed a bunch of miserable nurses. They got it, but I seriously doubt they'll do much good. The shortage itself will be our best ally.

schrandt · May 17, 2001

I was appalled by the snide comments I have read thus far. We call ourselves professionals?? Is it any wonder that other professions (including our own) don't recognize us as such? There does not seem to be any cohesiveness among us. That seems to be why the nursing profession can't get anything accomplished without infighting and backstabbing. God help us.

I happen to be ADN prepared. I worked very very hard as I'm sure all of you did. Nursing school is tough, and is no picnic when you are raising 4 young children. During college, I was blessed to train under some well prepared LPNs that provided excellent hands on care, and was quite impressed with their compassion, knowledge and caring. On the flip side, we have all worked with BSNs fresh out of school, and wind up spoon feeding them for a time, yes, the focus is, by and large, on management.In the facility where I work (itty bitty 25 bed hospital in rural north Iowa), most of us are ADN or diploma grads. We also take many classes to enhance our training to be able to function well in crital care, ER, & OR. Our pay scale is very competitive with area hospitals. I started 17 years ago at $6.45/hr, so I don't think $14 to start is too bad, provided incremental raises are given consistently after a probationary period. I have been at the top of the scale for years, but I am content with my hourly wage and the benefits, some of which can not have a price put on them, such as co-workers you consider as friends and family.

However, I found myself wanting a little more. My goal is to teach, and you can't do that with an ADN, regardless of the amount of experience you may have. I worked my tail off to complete my BSN, now working it off some more (not that it can't use the exercise!) in addition to going broke (I happen to be family oriented too) working on my masters and will allow no one to make me feel guilty about the desire for more education!!! There is only one class I have taken I didn't feel was quite necessary. The point is to be well rounded (whatever that my be--except my shape maybe).

I agree the BSN as entry level will never fly, especially now with the country in an uproar over the nursing shortage. This was a big scare even 19 years ago! However, a close look at the demographics tell us there are less than 10% of all nursing school enrollees preparing for advanced practice careers. So tell me, who are the instructors, managers and administrators going to be--hmmm? Does this mean ADNs are not capable? Of course not--so don't go into orbit over that remark. Does it mean that the LPN or ADN are any less of a nurse?? The answer to that is an unequivocal NOOOO!! Only if you see yourself as such. But shame on the ANA for not considering any LPN a nurse. I don't really think Hot Spam meant the LPN wanted to be considered a BSN, but he/she certainly deserves to be recognised for her own merit. ACNPs reply was cruel and insensitive (with mis-spelled words--and that from a 4.0 GPA). We have one on our staff, we do not trust her-she will not back you up, and delights in cutting a nurse to ribbons in front of family members, and she was a NURSE?? Give me a break. No, not all nurses are the same, God didn't make us all alike. But I will repeat--that does not make an LPN less of a nurse.

jt-(that happens to be my son's name)-as far as creating a 2-tiered system?? Possibly. Let's be realistic. There are certain things an LPN is not allowed to do--IVs for example unless she/he has training. One's own state nurse practice act spells out very definitely what is or isn't allowed. An RN without specific training is not allowed to intubate unless training is provided. I won't be the first one in line to scream foul for not letting me do that in the course of a normal day-thank you very much! Although I am trained to do it, it really isn't on my list of fun things to do.

This "profession" needs to find some unity, a common ground to work from, and shared respect for each other to elicit change (it will happen with or without us). It is in our best interest to do just that.

You have all provided me with an afternoon of "entertainment", and a lot of food for thought. Thanks.

Sherro

schrandt · May 17, 2001

I was appalled by the snide comments I have read thus far. We call ourselves professionals?? Is it any wonder that other professions (including our own) don't recognize us as such? There does not seem to be any cohesiveness among us. That seems to be why the nursing profession can't get anything accomplished without infighting and backstabbing. God help us.

I happen to be ADN prepared. I worked very very hard as I'm sure all of you did. Nursing school is tough, and is no picnic when you are raising 4 young children. During college, I was blessed to train under some well prepared LPNs that provided excellent hands on care, and was quite impressed with their compassion, knowledge and caring. On the flip side, we have all worked with BSNs fresh out of school, and wind up spoon feeding them for a time, yes, the focus is, by and large, on management.In the facility where I work (itty bitty 25 bed hospital in rural north Iowa), most of us are ADN or diploma grads. We also take many classes to enhance our training to be able to function well in crital care, ER, & OR. Our pay scale is very competitive with area hospitals. I started 17 years ago at $6.45/hr, so I don't think $14 to start is too bad, provided incremental raises are given consistently after a probationary period. I have been at the top of the scale for years, but I am content with my hourly wage and the benefits, some of which can not have a price put on them, such as co-workers you consider as friends and family.

However, I found myself wanting a little more. My goal is to teach, and you can't do that with an ADN, regardless of the amount of experience you may have. I worked my tail off to complete my BSN, now working it off some more (not that it can't use the exercise!) in addition to going broke (I happen to be family oriented too) working on my masters and will allow no one to make me feel guilty about the desire for more education!!! There is only one class I have taken I didn't feel was quite necessary. The point is to be well rounded (whatever that my be--except my shape maybe).

I agree the BSN as entry level will never fly, especially now with the country in an uproar over the nursing shortage. This was a big scare even 19 years ago! However, a close look at the demographics tell us there are less than 10% of all nursing school enrollees preparing for advanced practice careers. So tell me, who are the instructors, managers and administrators going to be--hmmm? Does this mean ADNs are not capable? Of course not--so don't go into orbit over that remark. Does it mean that the LPN or ADN are any less of a nurse?? The answer to that is an unequivocal NOOOO!! Only if you see yourself as such. But shame on the ANA for not considering any LPN a nurse. I don't really think Hot Spam meant the LPN wanted to be considered a BSN, but he/she certainly deserves to be recognised for her own merit. ACNPs reply was cruel and insensitive (with mis-spelled words--and that from a 4.0 GPA). We have one on our staff, we do not trust her-she will not back you up, and delights in cutting a nurse to ribbons in front of family members, and she was a NURSE?? Give me a break. No, not all nurses are the same, God didn't make us all alike. But I will repeat--that does not make an LPN less of a nurse.

jt-(that happens to be my son's name)-as far as creating a 2-tiered system?? Possibly. Let's be realistic. There are certain things an LPN is not allowed to do--IVs for example unless she/he has training. One's own state nurse practice act spells out very definitely what is or isn't allowed. An RN without specific training is not allowed to intubate unless training is provided. I won't be the first one in line to scream foul for not letting me do that in the course of a normal day-thank you very much! Although I am trained to do it, it really isn't on my list of fun things to do.

This "profession" needs to find some unity, a common ground to work from, and shared respect for each other to elicit change (it will happen with or without us). It is in our best interest to do just that.

You have all provided me with an afternoon of "entertainment", and a lot of food for thought. Thanks.

Sherro

cynthia5seattle · May 17, 2001

I've been reading the posts on this topic. I've been an LPN for over 20 yrs. I stepped out of hands on nursing approx 5 yrs ago. I came to the crossroads of realizing I needed to go back to school but as what. The thought of returning for my RN with associate degree did cross my mind, but all the classes when I had previously taken for for associate degree in another area years ago would not apply: Chemistry, Biology, etc. Plus, the fact that I could only get one quarter credit for all my already learned hands on skills. The thought of having to retake all these classes and waste a year was discouraging. What could I do that I could use my experience and still stay in health care? I returned to school to become a Health Information Technician.

With this I belong to an association that recognizes all that work with Health Information and have different levels of education. This includes coders and transcriptionists.

The reason that I an posting this is that I do not regret my years as a nurse. I did some great things. Its just the elitism that is out there. If you are an RN frowned upon because you only got you ADN. LPN because you aren't an RN. The Nursing Assistants because need I continue. We all work together. The BSN got this elitist attitude that we need primary care nursing and all nurses need to be a BSN. They are the only ones with the advance training to do a proper patient assessment. Well we are in a nursing shortage folks maybe its time you all learned to play together and learn to use others skills. I am happy in my new profession but have kept my nursing license current. I belong to an association that recognizes all and has separate areas for each speciality. Why can't the ANA if they want to represent nursing do this? Or maybe someone should start an organization that does?

cynthia5seattle · May 17, 2001

I've been reading the posts on this topic. I've been an LPN for over 20 yrs. I stepped out of hands on nursing approx 5 yrs ago. I came to the crossroads of realizing I needed to go back to school but as what. The thought of returning for my RN with associate degree did cross my mind, but all the classes when I had previously taken for for associate degree in another area years ago would not apply: Chemistry, Biology, etc. Plus, the fact that I could only get one quarter credit for all my already learned hands on skills. The thought of having to retake all these classes and waste a year was discouraging. What could I do that I could use my experience and still stay in health care? I returned to school to become a Health Information Technician.

With this I belong to an association that recognizes all that work with Health Information and have different levels of education. This includes coders and transcriptionists.

The reason that I an posting this is that I do not regret my years as a nurse. I did some great things. Its just the elitism that is out there. If you are an RN frowned upon because you only got you ADN. LPN because you aren't an RN. The Nursing Assistants because need I continue. We all work together. The BSN got this elitist attitude that we need primary care nursing and all nurses need to be a BSN. They are the only ones with the advance training to do a proper patient assessment. Well we are in a nursing shortage folks maybe its time you all learned to play together and learn to use others skills. I am happy in my new profession but have kept my nursing license current. I belong to an association that recognizes all and has separate areas for each speciality. Why can't the ANA if they want to represent nursing do this? Or maybe someone should start an organization that does?

snazzle · May 17, 2001

I have been an LPN for 10 years, I am returning to school in the fall to pursue my BSN, and I pray for GOD to help me not turn out like most of the RN's with a BSN that I have had the displeasure of working with. I work on a rehab/acute care unit, and oh my!!! I'M THE CHARGE NURSE. I made the decision to further my education because I love what I do and would like to heard by the general nursing public. It's sad that most of those with a BSN don't realize how important all nursing roles are. We are supposed to be working together for the good of the patient. I have yet had a patient in pain ask if I was a nurse with a diploma or a degree. And for the elitest, it's best the you aren't "bedside nurses", the patients need a little compassion not alot of attitude.

snazzle · May 17, 2001

I have been an LPN for 10 years, I am returning to school in the fall to pursue my BSN, and I pray for GOD to help me not turn out like most of the RN's with a BSN that I have had the displeasure of working with. I work on a rehab/acute care unit, and oh my!!! I'M THE CHARGE NURSE. I made the decision to further my education because I love what I do and would like to heard by the general nursing public. It's sad that most of those with a BSN don't realize how important all nursing roles are. We are supposed to be working together for the good of the patient. I have yet had a patient in pain ask if I was a nurse with a diploma or a degree. And for the elitest, it's best the you aren't "bedside nurses", the patients need a little compassion not alot of attitude.

Barbara Rose · May 17, 2001

Well, I started out as a CNA, then LVN, am now an ADN working on my BSN (for 15yrs.now) and plan to get a dual masters within the next 5 years. Nothing wrong with any of the education, or the jobs. I am getting the education to satisfy those who think only degreed individuals can think, but I will continue to work for the bedside nurse, and will always do some form of hands on nursing. That is what I do and what I love. Health care is changing and if we don't change with it, we will be left behind, lacking and fustrated once again. The fighting between us has got to stop, and the movement for recognition, control of our profession, better pay and working conditions has got to move forward. If you don't like something in your life, you change it (husbands, jobs, weight, hair color, etc.) well, nursing as a profession is no different. It will take all of us to work together to move into the future, a future we choose for ourselves. If this is it, then we are in real trouble.

Barbara Rose · May 17, 2001

Well, I started out as a CNA, then LVN, am now an ADN working on my BSN (for 15yrs.now) and plan to get a dual masters within the next 5 years. Nothing wrong with any of the education, or the jobs. I am getting the education to satisfy those who think only degreed individuals can think, but I will continue to work for the bedside nurse, and will always do some form of hands on nursing. That is what I do and what I love. Health care is changing and if we don't change with it, we will be left behind, lacking and fustrated once again. The fighting between us has got to stop, and the movement for recognition, control of our profession, better pay and working conditions has got to move forward. If you don't like something in your life, you change it (husbands, jobs, weight, hair color, etc.) well, nursing as a profession is no different. It will take all of us to work together to move into the future, a future we choose for ourselves. If this is it, then we are in real trouble.

poohnurse · May 18, 2001

I have to admit that the bickering on this board is what is in the work place also. It's true that nurse's eat their young, just listen to what's going on here.

Whether I'm an LPN or a BSN doesn't mean anything to my patients. It's whether I can teach them what they need to know to take care of themselves and whether I can take care of them until they get to that point.

What would a BSN do without the ADN or LPN working the floor with her/him. Healthcare is already in trouble and for anyone who thinks the hospitals, LTC, or insurance companies are willing to pay big bucks for all BSN nurse's you're dreaming. I respect nurse's who know 1)they're own limits and 2) who respect me and my limits and my knowledge. Maybe I know somethings that you may have missed and vice versa. A degree doesn't mean crap if you're so educated that you no longer have any common sense or all you can think about is how you're above the hands on work.

I know I have a lot to learn but I also know that in this profession you never stop learning. It's my job to collect the data and let the M.D. call the shots. But I can tell you that many times I've picked up on things the RN or the MD have missed. So let's quit the arguing about who's better. Every nurse is needed today and you should be happy to have the extra hands - some day that nurse upon whom you're down on might save your butt from a lawsuit.

poohnurse · May 18, 2001

I have to admit that the bickering on this board is what is in the work place also. It's true that nurse's eat their young, just listen to what's going on here.

Whether I'm an LPN or a BSN doesn't mean anything to my patients. It's whether I can teach them what they need to know to take care of themselves and whether I can take care of them until they get to that point.

What would a BSN do without the ADN or LPN working the floor with her/him. Healthcare is already in trouble and for anyone who thinks the hospitals, LTC, or insurance companies are willing to pay big bucks for all BSN nurse's you're dreaming. I respect nurse's who know 1)they're own limits and 2) who respect me and my limits and my knowledge. Maybe I know somethings that you may have missed and vice versa. A degree doesn't mean crap if you're so educated that you no longer have any common sense or all you can think about is how you're above the hands on work.

I know I have a lot to learn but I also know that in this profession you never stop learning. It's my job to collect the data and let the M.D. call the shots. But I can tell you that many times I've picked up on things the RN or the MD have missed. So let's quit the arguing about who's better. Every nurse is needed today and you should be happy to have the extra hands - some day that nurse upon whom you're down on might save your butt from a lawsuit.