An RN friend being set up at her job, are even threatening her license; need advice

[mondkmondk]

I have a friend who is an RN who just got out of a psychiatric hospital. She has problems sleeping and today was supposed to work and did try to go to work although she was very groggy. She tried to call in and was told she would lose her job if she didn't come in. So she went in and said she felt very dizzy and laid her head down on the nurses' station for about 10 seconds...however, another employee saw her and told everyone she was sleeping. The nursing manager shows up and gives her a drug screen, she passes, but they place her on suspension anyway and are threatening to call her BON and get her license revoked. Doesn't she have any rights at all in this matter? I want to help her in any way I can...

Please advise!

Blessings, Michelle

[kcochrane]

As others have stated..she has learned a hard lesson. If you are not fit to go in...don't. I would far rather suffer the consequences of calling in sick rather than come in and hurt someone because I am not fit. I could live with losing my job, can't live with hurting someone or losing my license.

I wish the best for your friend. Sounds like getting a lawyer was the best step for her.

[ukstudent]

Not saying that this is necessarily true, but here are some thoughts based of what you have written.

Your Friend has just come out of a psychiatric hospital (first line of the OP) so I am assuming that she had some sort of breakdown that required being admitted for a period of time. We and possibly you do not know what sort of symptoms she was showing prior to the breakdown. Did she put patients in possible harm during this time unwittingly due to her mental heath problems? Did her co-workers see her sleeping a lot prior to being admitted? If they did it might be the reason they jumped to the conclusion that she was sleeping when she laid her head down for a few seconds.

In the past I worked on a floor as a tech in which we had a nurse with mental health problems and also one with shall we say standard health problems. I both cases the other nurses on the floor got really tired of having to do their own work plus a substantial amount of the other nurses work in order to keep patients safe.

Both nurses ended up hospitalized and then came back to the floor. In both cases when they came back they could not carry a full load of patients and the other nurses were still being asked to work more when these particular nurses were working with them. Both ended up leaving after a paper trail showing that they could not do the job was established.

In your fiends case, being suspended for "sleeping on the job", and in most hospitals you can be suspended for this, is the start of a paper trail. Your Friend can deny that she was sleeping but people saw her with her eyes closed and her head down, she will not be able to prove that see wasn't sleeping.

With this start in the paper trail for termination she needs to start looking for a new job.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Well, I know she takes Ambien CR and they've given her static over that in the past. I think the place she works wants healthy hearty nurses on NO meds at all. I know another nurse who used to work there too that was on Paxil and Xanax and they railroaded her too. It is so sad that in this day and age, mental illness still carries such a stigma, especially with health care professionals, who should be the most understanding!

My friend was told that since she is only "prn" that she should never ever call in unless death. She has only ever called in once and has worked there like 5 years. Then this happens to her. I personally don't think it's fair. My friend is very honest and has no reason to lie. I believe her; I know you all don't know her like I do so it is easy to assume there is more to it. Basically, my friend is an awesome nurse and "everybody's friend" and someone there has it out for her.

Blessings, Michelle

Does she still have to call if "death"? I assume you mean her death, LOL. Sorry, I just thought it sounded so ridiculous and it also made me angry.

Anyway, Ambien is just a sleeping pill and millions of people use it.

the real problem is that your friend has apparently been telling her personal business at work when she should abxolutely NEVER EVER tell her personal business to anyone she doesn't want to know it, especially at work. She is not duty bound to tell all her diagnoses, meds, troubles, and woes to anyone, especially at work. Bosses have no business "requiring" the divulging of private information. workers have to learn to keep quiet about this stuff. If the worker thinks she's dangerous or too sick to work, then she should just call off.

She's probably better to just find another job now and quit this one. If they reported her to the BON, she has to fight if she wants to keep her license. I'm glad she called a lawyer already. make sure it's a lawyer who handles personnel matters well.

The dizzyness could have been from many reasons. It didn't have to be caused by meds. Let them prove what the cause was.

I'm glad her drug screen came back clean.

Laying her head down for 10 seconds because of dizzyness, does not indicate sleep. That is really outrageous. She could be dizzy due to pregnancy or low blood sugar or a brain tumor.

[SandraCVRN]

Ambien may "just" be a sleeping pill, but can give you amnesia even after waking, I went to work, assisted in the OR on a procedure and do not remember even going to the hospital that day.

I'm sure that doesn't happen very often but it happens enough that "Ambien sex" is even joked about on tv.

Just saying, maybe she doesn't know the whole story....

[1stloveistobeanurse]

I am in the process of studying for nursing, however, from working at a hospital I can add somethings. Setting a person up due to an illness is discrimination, but she must be able to prove just that, what I mean is what else has taken place that she feels like she is being setup by her employer. I think what is missing here is " the always", my employer always gives me the most patients ........

No one is saying that your friend is telling a lie but sometime we will become upset when we are terminated and we want to get back at them. I know I just lost my income as well, (not in nursing) but I am taking the good with the bad I now have more time to study for my nursing to be more successful in school. I am not saying this is the case, but tell your friend to remember there are more jobs just like there are more nurses, some places are good fits some are not dont focus too much on the bad because it will hold you back from the next employer. I would check with the BON and run this by them

[cherrybreeze, ADN, RN]

I don't believe Ambien is a benzo, it is classified as a "sedative/hypnotic" but I don't think it's a benzo. And, if it was, wouldn't your friend's drug test have been positive for benzos? You said it was clean.

I would have thought that the employment drug screens would still have been confidential, and the results kept within HR. If you have a prescription for something, and that's what your drug test is positive for, it's not a mark against you (someone correct me if I am wrong?). At any rate, they still hired the people on those meds, so it wasn't a problem at the time of hiring....

At first I missed the part about her just getting out of a psychiatric hospital. That leads me to further believe there's more to the story (and OP, that's not an insult to your friend....I am sure she IS a great nurse, and "everybody's friend," but that doesn't mean something else couldn't have been going on). Especially in terms of psychatric/mental health issues, people don't talk about them...even to their good friends and family, much of the time. They know about the stigma involved, so they keep things like that to themselves. I have a history with depression myself, and although I've never been treated as an inpatient for it, there are times in the past that it was bad enough that I probably SHOULD have been. I talk to my mom about it, and my sister about it (sometimes), but that's pretty much IT. My brother doesn't even know about the extent of the problems I've had with it. Some of my coworkers know, and my bosses know, but only because of a particularly bad time I went through a couple of years ago....I don't talk about the issues I still have, and they don't know what medications I am on, etc. I'm not saying that if you don't know something, it means she's a bad person/bad nurse, or that you don't have a good friendship....it's just an intensely private issue, and most people don't share.

[maxthecat]

I would advise your friend to start looking for a new job. The powers that be clearly do not want nurses who have health problems working for them and if they don't get her out with this instance they will just find another problem.

Are they for sure going to report her to the Board of Nursing? Maybe they just want her to "go quietly." I'm not sure I'd up the ante with a lawyer until I knew for certain my employer was going after my license as opposed to threatening that so they could get me to resign with no muss and no fuss.

I believe (don't necessarily agree) that management does have a right to know what medications their employees are taking. It's a condition of hire in most places these days.

Just because you have a prescription for a med doesn't mean you're OK to take it and go to work. Some nurses are on prescription pain meds, but they have to be very careful when they take them. You can be cited for working impaired even if your med is legally prescribed. In your friend's case it sounds like she was impaired at work.

If your friend's mental health problems are chronic, she might want to consider taking Family Medical Leave when she has to call out sick. Usually that will mean that the absences cannot be counted against her.

Do institutions discriminate against people with a history of mental health issues? You bet they do. Is it legal. NO....but just try to prove it. Unless there are several people involved and a pattern of discrimination against those people solely because they took psych meds and were under a psychiatrist's care can be shown, the insititution can always say, "Oh, we're not firing him because of THAT...he didn't meet our attendance policy or he made too many med errors, etc." Which is why your friend needs to be looking for a friendlier employer.

[maxthecat]

Just to clarify on my post above: When I say your friend was probably working impaired, I don't mean that she was necessarily impaired by a med (although ambien doesn't reliably show up on our drug screens). You don't have to be on drugs or alcohol to be impaired--it can be something like not enough sleep. Residents who are on their 3rd day with minimal sleep are working impaired according to me...but the system accepts that.

[cherrybreeze, ADN, RN]

I would advise your friend to start looking for a new job. The powers that be clearly do not want nurses who have health problems working for them and if they don't get her out with this instance they will just find another problem.

Are they for sure going to report her to the Board of Nursing? Maybe they just want her to "go quietly." I'm not sure I'd up the ante with a lawyer until I knew for certain my employer was going after my license as opposed to threatening that so they could get me to resign with no muss and no fuss.

I believe (don't necessarily agree) that management does have a right to know what medications their employees are taking. It's a condition of hire in most places these days.

Just because you have a prescription for a med doesn't mean you're OK to take it and go to work. Some nurses are on prescription pain meds, but they have to be very careful when they take them. You can be cited for working impaired even if your med is legally prescribed. In your friend's case it sounds like she was impaired at work.

If your friend's mental health problems are chronic, she might want to consider taking Family Medical Leave when she has to call out sick. Usually that will mean that the absences cannot be counted against her.

Do institutions discriminate against people with a history of mental health issues? You bet they do. Is it legal. NO....but just try to prove it. Unless there are several people involved and a pattern of discrimination against those people solely because they took psych meds and were under a psychiatrist's care can be shown, the insititution can always say, "Oh, we're not firing him because of THAT...he didn't meet our attendance policy or he made too many med errors, etc." Which is why your friend needs to be looking for a friendlier employer.

On the flip side, though, the assumption seems to be that if a nurse (or any employee) is on x, y, or z med, they are "impaired" if they take it. That's not the case, either. It's hard to fight that generalization. If someone has been on a med long term, be it anxiolytics (like a benzo like Xanax) opioid pain medication, etc., they can safely take it without having their judgements impaired.

[maxthecat]

On the flip side, though, the assumption seems to be that if a nurse (or any employee) is on x, y, or z med, they are "impaired" if they take it. That's not the case, either. It's hard to fight that generalization. If someone has been on a med long term, be it anxiolytics (like a benzo like Xanax) opioid pain medication, etc., they can safely take it without having their judgements impaired.

I absolutely agree with that, but I think it's a hard sell to employers and maybe to the Board of Nursing.

[mondkmondk]

A psychiatric nurse told me that Ambien definitely comes up as a benzo on a urine drug screen. I know it is a sedative/hypnotic, but other people have told me that too. When I said she passed her drug screen, I meant she didn't have any other meds on there besides her Ambien. She was negative for illicit drugs and alcohol. I haven't talked to her today but will keep everyone posted on the outcome.

Thanks for all the advice...

Blessings, Michelle

[diane227, LPN, RN]

How is it that they know so much of her medical history?

1. If she has been employed at this facility for at least 12 months she can make application for FMLA. She should do this at once.

2. Her employer has the right to terminate her for cause. Does she have other incidents of disciplinary action in her file? Has she had problems with attendance?

3. She should have stood her ground on calling in ill. A person is responisble for knowing if they can take a patient assignment in a safe, responsible manner.

4. There is probably more to this story that you are aware of.