Am I missing something...?

Be_Moore · Jun 5, 2009

A useful phrase from American history that you should take into context when reviewing the American health care system.

"Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?" - Senator Joseph McCarthy.

American's are still afraid of communism. Is it right? No. Is it the way it is? Yes.

thinkertdm · Jun 5, 2009

Unfortunately, by embracing capitalism, the worth of a human being is exactly that- how much they can afford. It is unethical to base deny people who need life saving interventions based upon their ability to pay for it.

babyNP., APRN · Jun 5, 2009

I've heard that nurses in the UK don't make very much money at all though along with doctors compared to the U.S.

Nursing should not end up like teaching where you're overworked and underpaid.

RNperdiem, RN · Jun 5, 2009

Medicare and Medicaid are programs that cover costs for millions of people( the elderly and impoverished)

Unfortunately the government is very tight with the money there and the money paid for care often does not cover the cost of care.

Hospitals do not just rely on insurance.

Every system is going to have its drawbacks and benefits.

I read the BBC health website enough to know that all healthcare systems have their issues.

Katnip, RN · Jun 5, 2009

There will never be a perfect healthcare system, especially in a country the size of the US.

I'd like to see some kind of system where everyone gets at least basic healthcare with well visits covered and immunizations and care for accidents, and catastrophic illness that won't bankrupt a person for all citizens and legal residents, and for those who can or want to, add supplemental insurance for private physicians if they wish.

By the same token, people who receive care need to be held accountable for their own behaviors regarding care and should not be allowed to go to the ED for non-emergency visits. No more "my leg's been hurting for three years, and I thought I'd drop in to have it checked out now." No more "I can't afford a pregnancy test."

jjjoy, LPN · Jun 5, 2009

Nursing should not end up like teaching where you're overworked and underpaid.

Too late! Or maybe it's more that nurses (especially in less popular but high volume areas like LTC and med-surg) have traditionally been overworked and underpaid...

jjjoy, LPN · Jun 5, 2009

The way I see it is that there is no perfect system out there; each has it's strengths and weaknesses and we have to try to balance the good with the bad as well as we can; but there *will* be problems no matter what type of system is in place. It seems more useful to me address how to balance the pros and cons of the system that one is advocating for as opposed to glossing over the cons of the system one supports and pulling up the worst case examples of the cons of alternative systems. That goes for both ends of the spectrum on any issue. Right or left, we are all humans with the same tendencies to overgeneralize, demonize, fear-monger, etc.

justiceforjoy · Jun 5, 2009

Where I'm at, the nurses are paid much better than in most states and we have pretty darn good unions backing us up.

PICNICRN, BSN, RN · Jun 5, 2009

"I understand that it's all to do with 'Consumer Choice' and 'Market Forces', but does that make it ok to have large numbers of people who can't get the treatment they need? Sure, there are waiting lists in Canada and Britain, but people are getting what they need pretty much when they need it and there are no layoffs."

I think that for the most part people are getting the treatment they need- they just are not paying for it. ERs are full of earaches, rashes, fevers,ect. Many of these people could go to a primary care provider- except- they do not have insurance and cannot or will not pay up front as required by the Doc at time of service. Insted they bring their rash to the ER where they cannot be turned away. They are in fact treated and many times when the bill comes, they just do not pay.

In my state, the state insurance requires a SMALL co pay for sick office visits and gives free immunizations, well child visits, and emergency care- so guess what? EVERYTHING is an EMERGENCY! Because there is no copay! So here they come to the ER with their rash- they are treated and go home happy- all on the taxpayer right? Wrong.... because now the state is saying "hey that is not an emergency, we're not going to pay".... so who is stuck with the bill?? The hospital!

Hospitals all over California and the boarder states are closing their doors because they cannot afford to provide free care without being reimbursed to all of the "uninsured" many of whom come into this country to receive this quality free healthcare.

The whole system is broken! I wish I knew how to fix it. But I just do not believe that allowing the government to be in charge of healtcare is the answer either. As you said, there are many people on waiting lists in the UK and Canada... and many of those, who are able, come HERE to receive their care with no wait. We should all have that option.

Personally, I would like to see some kind of "insurance reform".... where you can actually purchase a policy for a reasonable price and cannot be denied for the dumbest little "pre existing" condition.

Morning-glory · Jun 5, 2009

Having lived and worked in Canada my whole life, I have to say that despite the long wait times for certain test and procedures and the shortage of GP's the system overall still works fairly well. Our ERs still get some silly cases, but they are in the minority. The GPs are the gatekeepers, not the insurance companies.

Nurses (in most cases) are paid well and are a respected member of the team. The doctors are paid more, but not outrageously. I can afford a house, a car and groceries. And still have money left over to put into savings. This is not a bad life. And if I get sick, there will be someone to care for me and my loved ones without becoming bankrupt. I pay 30% of my salary to income tax, but for me, having the safety net is worth that much.

I don't have to count how many tylenols I give out, I don't need to track every use of a 4x4 gauze. We don't discharge people from LTC because they have run out of money. In Canada, you will get care whether you have a pre-existing condition or not. You are covered from birth to death. This is a more humaine system, even if does have it's problems.

babyNP., APRN · Jun 5, 2009

So, a quick search on NHS, a newly qualified RN (Grade D) makes anywhere from

17,000 to 19,000 pounds which is roughly $34,000-38,000 dollars if you double it like the exchange rates were a year ago (now they're more like 1.5).

That would mean that I'd be taking about a 40% pay cut. As a new grad in a metropolitan city, I was offered $55,000 working day shift and can make up to $60,000 if I work night shift.

I do believe in trying to help everyone get health care. But my rather (controlling) attitude is that you shouldn't give it to people who harm themselves (not psychological problems), but that 50 year old guy who needs another heart surgery because he refuses to eat right. Go ahead and have your greasy food. But don't expect for ME, the individual to pay for your mistakes.

Granted it would be hard/nearly impossible to keep track of this (can we really know 100% that your lifestyle caused you to end up like this?)...but the drunk driver pays for the person he hit. We're taught as children to pay for our mistakes...