Am I ill-suited to the ED?

Specialties Emergency

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***Please do not move to student nurse forum. I want advice from nurses*****

I chose to have my leadership (capstone, senior practicum) clinical in the emergency room. I have a strong interest in psychiatry, and I was aware that many psych patients wind up in the emergency room. This is where I would like to make a difference.

I felt the ED was a good place for me because I enjoy a fast pace, I like to see many different people, I am okay with trauma and emotionally charged situations, I keep a cool head under pressure.

For the most part, I enjoyed it. I handled two codes and one death very well. I also really admired the charge nurse and I think the hospital is a good one.

However, I became very frustrated with a few things. I would like your opinion on whether these things happened because I was sometimes paired with a bad nurse (and I think I was) or whether my difficulty means I am not right for the ED, or whether it is something else. Your insight, whatever it may be.

In short, these are the things that happened that I struggle with:

1. A general and open disdain for psych patients.

2. A nurse told me to discharge a patient AMA even though the patient told me she had changed her mind and would like to stay. I refused to discharge her, by the way. That did not go well, but I survived. (this I attribute to the bad nurse). In addition to this, there was a general rush to clear the beds, especially during busy times.

3. I was told that we do not address problems that weren't "what the patient came in for." I also attribute this to the bad nurse, because the charts suggest that we do in fact do that, or we are supposed to.

4. A disregard for all things not immediately life threatening. For example, a physician removed an unconscious patient's leg dressings, then just threw the bandages back on without tape saying, "Ok, that's done." When I addressed this problem with the nurse and asked if I could redress the wounds she said "No, we don't do that. The ICU will take care of it." But the ICU did not have a bed for the patient for the rest of the 12 hour shift.

***On a side note, I am noticing most of my issues have to do with one nurse whom I feel gave poor care. ***

5. In general, I heard a lot of "we don't do that." in response to my questions about interventions.

One thing that I feel may make me ill suited to the ED in general is that I prefer to address all the issues with the patient., rather than just the emergent ones.

I would like to think about the future for the patient and not just their present needs. If a psych patient keeps bouncing to the ED, for example, I would like to help address this problem rather than send him out without referrals knowing he'll be back tomorrow. Is there any ED that works this way? Does this mean I should go to psych inpatient instead?

The social worker in charge of admitting or releasing crisis patients had so much disdain for the psych patients too. It was disheartening. The other social worker, the one not in charge of that, was wonderful.

Your comments are appreciated in advance.

You were right to advocate for the patient.

My family member with sepsis experienced an ER physician trying to discharge them before they had even been stabilized to the extent possible in the ER. The physician finally ended up admitting them, but not before discharge paperwork had been drawn up. The nurse even said they were going to bring my family member the discharge paperwork (while carefully avoiding making eye contact with me). I told my family member to refuse to sign the discharge paperwork if the nurse brought it, and they agreed as they knew they were far too sick to go home. My family member was shocked and scared too, as they were very sick and ended up spending three days in hospital as an inpatient. I was horrified at what happened.

I have no medical ER experience, but I did work for a short time in a psych ER. Are there any hospitals with psych ER that you can apply to once you graduate? The one I worked at was a regular hospital that also had 2 inpatient psych units. I definitely didn't enjoy the job, but it sounds right up your alley.

My comments for what they are worth. I'm an ED RN in level one trauma. Oh yeah and in general I also like psych patients!

there are many Ed nurses who think psych is not real or babysitting at best. You can learn to deal with this. In ten years, psych care may look different, but it's a huge problem right now with no easy answers.

realize that chemical health --od's and intoxication also fall into this realm.

ED deals with the worst problem which could kill or injure you. The rest is fluff and is by no means comprehensive care. We turf a lot back to the floor or primary care. In my unit, we would be bogged down if we fixed it all.

you are always going to have nasty or insensitive humans including in healthcare. Doesn't mean you need to be one of them.

suggestion: seek out psych ED specifically or psych observation or holding. Consider also just doing psych only unless you want the diversity of ED. ED is a tough place in general and a tougher place to start. That's your call and depends on your community-- here very few new grads are even considered for ED.

Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
So, in this specific situation. I will guarantee that the doctor. "Hey, you have xyz, I'd like to keep you at least over night to make sure your xyz lab stays stable, your BP is stable, etc. But everything looks fairly normal right now, but you had chest pain, and it's just in the best interest to hang out with us." You get the idea.

Patient doesn't want to stay, obviously, financial reason, other commitments in life, etc. whatever the reason, just who really wants to stay, amirite?

Doc says "All right, well if you want to go, you can go." /leavesroom

You go in, "All right so the doctor has recommended to stay, to make sure your troponin doesn't rise, you don't have another episode, just to make sure everything is chill. If you leave, you're accepting responsibility that if you go outside and go into cardiac arrest and hit a light pole, we are not liable."

Patient says the doctor said I was fine, no nevermind, I want to stay! Oh my!

you hit the nail on the head!

Moral of the story, that patient has the right to accept, decline, refuse treatment, and the right to change her mind. It's her dang-blasted life, sheesh.

You by every stretch were in the right. Don't sweat it. You advocated for your patient's decision. Period. Game. Touchdown. Super bowl. Home run. Checkmate. So on that one, that nurse can squash all the noise.

Thank you, it feels great to have this confirmed .

This. Hm, first let me premise this with, if you have any questions, are confused, unsure, worried, whatever, feel free to PM me, or post it here, whichever.

Awesome you are the best!

So let me share my back ground story that I think might help. My last year of school, I worked as an ED Tech. I struggled with a lot of conflicting attitudes and ways of doing things, etc. that contradicted everything I learned in school. I wanted to wait until I had an order before I did anything because "YOU DONT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT AN ORDER MR STUDENT, YOU WILL BE SUED, IT WILL KILL YOU, AND YOU'LL GET EBOLA >:OOO" (nursing instructor rage)

Okay well, I slowly (only working on weekends, got a better feel of how this machine that is ED works. If someone's O2 is 86%, you do not go looking for the doctor, ask him for an order, then wait til it's in, and then go back to your patient that is now 78% and cyanotic, and now apply some supplemental oxygen. You will learn what's what, when to do it, and how. That's purely time and experience. Chest pain? Oh okay I'm going to get the tech to grab the EKG machine, I'm put some cardiac leads on em, I'ma throw some O2 on em, I'm gonna drop a line in em, and go ahead and get a rainbow of labs, draw an extra so the tech can go run a istat and get us a Chem8 and trops. Then I'm going to go ahead and get the aspirin and nitro, and throw those in. Then, since we've managed to knock all of this out before the doc has even gotten to the room, he or she already has a EKG, a line, appropriate treatments started per protocol, and he/she is already ahead in the game. Makes things more efficient for everyone, and sure he'll drop orders in later, and I'll chart em off. Success!

When I graduated, I worked for a year in Med-Surg, but the itch for the ER forever burned inside me. Med-Surg taught me a lot of great traditional nursing skills, some specialized things from that floor. (I.E. I'm the only ED nurse in our dept that knows how to set up a peritoneal dialysis cycle, I'm the go-to for CBI, and some other nephrology/dialysis skills. So I loved the floor, but I yearned for that thrill, that flavor that the ED offered, I finally got a call that they wanted to get me down there. I went, I love it, haven't regretted it for a second. I've been a nurse 2 years now, and not that I found what I love, I literally love to go to work, I look forward to it.

It will definitely take time to get that point. How do you differentiate between "This needs to be done, we don't have time to do it that way." versus "I'm lazy, and we just do this instead or the right evidence based way you have been taught.

Well, again time, but something more tangible and helpful: I know it's basic, but literally, think ABCs.. Airway Breathing Circulation. You just have to address, life-threatening/most serious things first. Then it is up to you to manage your time and resources, and you are free to address other issues as needed and best fits you as an individual. There is no law or rule that says you cannot take care of little/non acute issues in the ED if it is possible and time allows. You just have to balance and not let another more pressing issue suffer while you, idk, call 12 different family members for someone trying to find them a ride home.

In hindsight, I did sometimes get pulled into excessive non urgent interventions...

I think I will get it, it will just take time.

Your support means a lot to me.

I remember coming from MS to ED and being both amazed and terrified by all I could do and was expected to do without an order. It took a while to get standing orders/protocols and to feel even a little confident. Definitely like being a new grad again!

Specializes in ER.

On one hand, you will learn that some patients will mot take your advice at all. Most psych patients are connected to community resources.

Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
On one hand, you will learn that some patients will mot take your advice at all. Most psych patients are connected to community resources.

We have a very serious shortage of community resources for psych patients, and in my experience most are not well connected to what we do have. But maybe where you live is different.

ED RN here.

Most of your ED RN's are not interested in working with psychiatric patients. That's not why they got into the emergency department. Although we treat all kinds of emergencies, working with patients in various crises (manic, SI, HI) is not as exciting as the stabbing that's coming into the trauma bay in 5 minutes. Most ED RN's are adrenaline junkies. Psych patients can be time consuming and mentally/emotionally draining while waiting for a bed.

Our goal is to stabilize as best we can and determine where the patient needs to go, whether it be admission, discharge, or morgue. We facilitate throughput. Our goal is not to provide primary care.

Think of the ED like every patient is a rapid response; we assess color, breathing consciousness, and do a set of vitals. We stabilize any/most disruptions in airway, breathing, circulation, and get the patient where they need to be to receive care.

Like someone else mentioned, you are very idealistic. By all means, if you work ED and have the time, go the extra mile for your patients and do that perfect dressing on that oozing wound prior to admission, but do not complain when your coworkers do not do the same.

Can you look at doing psych as an intake nurse? My daughter went to the ED a few years back when she had self harm thoughts, she met with the intake nurse in the ED as it was pretty late at night. I dont work in the ED but imagine it would be hard to follow up on a pts psych issues when they are only there for a limited amount of time and if they havent said the key words to actually be admitted.

I think your heart is absolutely in the right place but the system is unfortunately.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Emergency, CEN.
...You have to remember, the ED is focused on present needs. ED is meant to stabilize. Stabilize and Move....

This. A thousand times this. Stabilize and send. People who are well go home, sick ones go to med-surg, very sick ones go to OR or ICU. Stabilize, sort and send.

If you spend 4 loving Nightengale hours on a patient who can't decide to be observed for a while or to go home, then the MI, stab wound, DKA patient in the waiting room dies. It truly is a scenario of "Ain't got time for that."

In a perfect world all of our patients would come in only when there were a bed ready to give them, be truly sick and be grateful for your attention to their illness. In real life, "patients" are bored and come in 4 times a day for "tooth ache" and ask for lunch boxes, socks, some of those heated blankets, and a prescription for narcotics to sell to their friends.

Wow.. that's is awful. You were paired up with a bad nurse and the MD didn't make the situation any easier for you!!

I'm speechless at their lack of care for their patients well being!

I just started in the ED. I previously worked in ICU where I personally attended to every minute detail of my patients' care. It was a huge change for me going to the ED. Like you, I felt that the nurses just weren't doing enough for their patients. I had to realize, though, that you just can't do that in the ED. There are too many patients with too much to do. If you gave your ED patients the same care as they would receive on the floor or in the unit, pretty much nothing would get done, people would be waiting longer than they already are to be seen, and people who truly need care may not be seen in time. It sucks that it has to be that way, but it is what it is. If your patient truly needs that level of care, hopefully they will be admitted. You can work ED if you can come to terms with the fact that you can't do it all for your patients. Treat the major issues, get people stabilized, get them referred elsewhere or admitted. Your job in the ED is to get people where they need to be safely and provide emergency care for life threatening issues, not necessarily to fix all their problems...though it's nice when you can :)

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