Am I off Base? or mentally unstable?

Nurses General Nursing

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Hello everyone,

I need your help. During a meeting with my Clinical AdvisorI was brated for a writing a paragraph in one of my reflections.

I wrote about a violent patient that I had one night that was admitted. He had to be placed in 5 point restraints and was trying to bite and spit on us.

I wrote that I preceived the expsure of salva, to be a risk to the staff and that I had asked my nursing preceptor if it was appropriate to put a OR mask on him. My preceptor said that it was not the policy and I fully accepted this. It was an aside comment to her and I made no attempt to do this.

My Adivior told me that I was completely out of place to even ask this. she state that salvia pose absolutely no risk to us and even thinking up such a thing meant that there is something fundamental wrong with my thinking and perceptions. Since i am not able to judge the risks I put the patient in danger. I told her that I did not accucually put the mask on the patient I only asked the nurse about it and as a student its my role to ask questions. I also repeated that this is my first mental health rotation.

I told her that I in fact do feel that the pt salvia posed a risk for infections like Hep B, herpes, conjuctaivsis and more. Espesically if it came in contact with my eyes or an open wound. She said that no such risk exisits and that my ability to realistically assess risk is suspect.

She then told me that under no curcumstance do we ever put anything on a pts face except a O2 mask. While this I can accept, am I not allowed to ask question as a student?

She then told me that my entire topic (violence in the workplace) was of concern to her as it is not a typical focus of a mentally stable student.

I felt like I had been hit in the stomach, all i could do was nod and hope this meeting ended asap. she says that I may fail if she doesnt feel that I can practice safely.

What I need to know was I out to lunch for (1) considering that spit exposure puts a person at risk, (2) asking a nurse the question about the OR mask, (3) choosing my topic.

or is my preception so outside the norm that I do in fact pose a threat to my patients.

thank you all.

Originally posted by ERNurse752

....Workplace Violence as a topic is EXTREMELY relevant to nursing today. I did a paper on it myself, and I consider myself to be mentally stable! (most of the time) ;).....

!

ERNurse,

I agree with the responses you gave, however I question the stability issue.

You still work in ER? I don't know any mentally stable ER nurses. I've worked in at leadt 30 ERs. Never met a mentally stable ER nurse. - me included. LOL

Zhakrin,

Keep the inquisitive mind. The more you learn, the better you will be equiped to handle the future.

ken :devil:

The nursing instructor was and is an idiot on a power trip. She is probably practiced and is stuck in the dark ages of nursing, before we knew about all the lovely, transmittable diseases we have.

Regarding asking the question, she should have ASKED YOU what you thought was an appropriate thing to do in this case or at the very least TOLD YOU to put on some protective gear............SHAME ON HER.

Teaching is about trying to expand someones mind.........she was trying to deflate and then instill fear in that student nurses head.

Specializes in Community Health Nurse.

This is one of those situations that could have been an excellent and appropriate time to utilize the "Reflective Practice" or "Praxis" method, wouldn't you all agree? That Instructor lost out on a valuable lesson that she could have assisted the student (Zhakrin) in learning by having him rethink the process of that particular situation with the "spitting patient". ;)

perhaps your clinical advisor is unstable

Spit does not transmit AIDs, if that's what you are worried about. However, being spit on is gross! I would have done something to protect myself. Your questions and thoughts on this were not out of line at all.

Here is some interesting legal stuff on cops being spit on:

http://www.thebody.com/lambda/saliva.html

Fiesty

Thank you for your post-you are so right to point out that AIDS is not transmitted via saliva. I went to a conference about a year ago regarding issues like this and you have reminded me how difficult it is to acquire AIDS from pt. So much depends on the viral load- how much blood was in the needle ( if it is a needle stick injury).

Hep B is quite another story. It is extremely strong and dangerous the enviroment. If my memory from the conference serves me right I remember that even blood that is old and dried on to a surface is capable of delivering Hep B is someone touches the spot with an open wound. Scary.

True too that being spit on is gross. I guess these days UNIVERSAL precautions are the ABSOLUTE best tool we have. I know in the ICU when I suction, gloves, goggles are the lastest fashion statements.

JMP- I heard the same thing about dried blood and Hepatitis in an inservice. Hep is VERY transmissable, unlike HIV. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe saliva can transmit Hep B and C if it comes into contact with your mucous membranes, eyes, or broken skin. Also, psych pts are often high-risk for hepatitis.

Specializes in Trauma acute surgery, surgical ICU, PACU.

I dunno, this is going to sound bad - but -

I don't care what is transmitted by what fluids - I do not want to come into contact with bodily fluids if I can help it. Period. I have put a mask on a patient - in a step-down unit where I was whirling from patient to patient and the gown/gloves/mask thing would have been so inappropriate as to be laughable. To what extent are nurses expected to put themselves at risk for any pathogen - doesn't have to be aids, could be tetorifice or there are lots of bugs in saliva - in order to protect pt's rights? Is putting a mask on someone really *that* horrible? I'd consider that a *very* mild restraint, worth the protection to staff.

*

I also think that any instructor who does not discuss this issue further with the student is an incompetent instructor - wouldn't be the first time, I am sure. The point of being a student is to learn and gain insight. Even if what you had suggested was totally awful, if you had been given the opportunity to see why it was bad and learn from it, the experience would have made you a better nurse. But to be slapped away from your line of thought like a child is wrong. YOu can't be a really good nurse until you can critically think your way through these types of issues, and *that* is what the instructor is supposed to focus on teaching. Not the situational specifics of right and wrong, but the *whys* and deeper rationale.

Zhakrin, don't lose heart. Sometimes there is no "right" answer, and not all teachers will be golden, but it is worth it in the end to succeed in this profession.

I think it's interesting that if a person spits on a police officer it is considered assault, but if they spit on a nurse it's just part of the job...

It should never be wrong in any situation for a student to ask an instructor a question. My question to your instructor is, Why the hell are you a teacher if you don't like questions?

You were not off base or mentally unstable, but IMO your instructor is. Keep asking those questions and you'll be a better nurse then she will ever be!!!!

Zharkin ,don't stop asking questions its one of the best ways to learn .Like some of the others have said the instructor needs help.as for your interest in violence in the work place its an interesting an admiral topic .Look up The Broset Violence checklist on the net google is a good search engine or the international forensic nurses web site .MHN

...It's quite obvious why your clinical instructor chose Psyche - she obviously is unhealthy, has a very abusive personality, and lacks healthy judgement and normal boundaries. You were right in all your assessments, thought processes, and to express concern for your own health and safety. This type of thing is tolerated far too frequently in nursing. Law enforcement would never tolerate such behavior or threat, nor would most physicians or administrators... and according to OSHA and JCAHO Standards, facilities MUST protect their employees from ALL potential dangers and health risks...

Your instructor attempted to justify her role and position-of-power by belittling your opinion, devaluing your rights, and attacking your stability. Personally, I strongly feel that this instructor does not belong in the role of a nurse-educator - or even in the profession... she needs to be in therapy...

These unacceptable and unsupported "silent-teachings" and sick attempts to control and victimize nurses is a main reason why so many nurses eventually leave the profession...

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